I think that this should be my last question before the big AG day tomorrow. But from what I have read dough balls are bad, everyone seems to agree on that. But I have read some articles that say to avoid dough balls you should add the water to the grain, and others that say exactly the opposite. What is the preferred method of combining water and grain to avoid dough balls?
Grain first, or strike water first?
- Thread starter GRHunter
- Start date
Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:
Everyone has their way. As long as you stir occasionally while adding you'll be fine.
Personally I find it easier to start with the water first, then stir in the grain. This mixes it up well, minimizes dougballs and helps to get a uniform temperature through out.
Personally I find it easier to start with the water first, then stir in the grain. This mixes it up well, minimizes dougballs and helps to get a uniform temperature through out.
daveotero
Well-Known Member
I add grain to water because I preheat my tun with strike temp + 10F water first. I'm only on all-grain batch 5 but I've never had a dough ball.
Mash thin, 1.3qt per pound or more and stir well. I use a giant wisk rather than a paddle and it works great. I ordered my from Rebel Brewer but you could find one at a kitchen supply store. Good luck!
Mash thin, 1.3qt per pound or more and stir well. I use a giant wisk rather than a paddle and it works great. I ordered my from Rebel Brewer but you could find one at a kitchen supply store. Good luck!
HIM_Tattoos
Well-Known Member
I do just the opposite, grain than water. Never had an issue.
MarkSheffield
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- May 5, 2009
- Messages
- 108
- Reaction score
- 1
I do grain-first as well. It just seems easier to pour in the strike water than to pour the grain into the water. If you do a good job mixing it's six of one and half a dozen of the other.
brewagentjay
Well-Known Member
I had issues with my SS braid coming up from bottom with stirring so I think next time I'm going with more pre-heat tun water and slowly add grain in get it mixed a little more with out having to stir as much or I'm gonna have to make a manifold....It worked but freaked me out and my SS braid seems to be a little mangled..........
springer
Well-Known Member
I do water then grain . I let the tun stabilize then I adjust the water temp to the desired strike temp and add grain . Mix with the cordless drill with a pint/mud mixer never had a dough ball problem.
I have a CPVC manifold (not glued) that I can take apart to clean. I'm always afraid it will come apart when I stir. It did once. I'm working to try to find a solution for this. I guess I could glue it all and just push water through at high pressure to clean it (perhaps with some removable caps on the ends to allow any grain an exit path). Some have suggested pins on the joints; that's too much work for me. We'll see. In any event, I go water first to let the tun preheat. I also heat my strike water to 5 degrees more than I need to make up for the lengthy stir.
springer
Well-Known Member
I found that if you purge the trapped air in the braid by opening the ball valve it doesn't float as much but in the end I add a a large SS nut to the free end. I just wired it on with SS bailing wire from HD
brewagentjay
Well-Known Member
I have seen some SS braids loop back into it's self by putting a T on the Nipple then to barbs on either side that might be what I do since I did get the 30" SS braid. That would seem like it would keep it from really coming up with stir much at all.
Still think I'll go with Strike water to pre-heat Tun then grain then water then grain then water...... Seems a little more trouble but sounds like the best solution for not mangling my SS Braid with heavy stirring and keeping dough balls out........
Some day I need to go with copper mainifold I guess then I can use the drill deal seems like a quick solution.
Still think I'll go with Strike water to pre-heat Tun then grain then water then grain then water...... Seems a little more trouble but sounds like the best solution for not mangling my SS Braid with heavy stirring and keeping dough balls out........
Some day I need to go with copper mainifold I guess then I can use the drill deal seems like a quick solution.
brewagentjay
Well-Known Member
hmmm I got an extra SS washer I could place on the SS braid as well to keep her down....didn't think of that.
daveotero
Well-Known Member
That's what I did, but I used compressions fittings after I saw that some people we're having trouble with "stainless steel" hose clamps rusting.
http://i841.photobucket.com/albums/zz332/daveotero/IMAG0799.jpg
Photopilot
Well-Known Member
I have only done a few AGs but when I added water to grain, I had to decoct many times to get the temps right. When I heated up the strike water to 169 in the Tun then added the grain I get to 154. I have found adding water and all the splashing really cools the Tun down. Pre-heating the tun allows me to hit my mash temp and keeps the MLT within 1 degree of themp for an hour long mash.
postban
Active Member
I did water first, then grain for my first AG batch, seemed to work well.
DavidSteel
Well-Known Member
I do water, then grain. I use a SS braid and if I put my grain in first, I'd have to lift the grain bed up and stir it in and I'm afraid I'd knock my braid around too much. I put the water in, put half my grain in, stir and keep adding grain and stirring until it's gone. Works well.
I like to start with strike water, and let it sit a second in the cooler to heat up the whole thing before I add the grain.
But that's just my preference.
But that's just my preference.
bendavanza
Well-Known Member
I'm a water, stabilize, then grain type of brewer.
Frodo
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Nov 11, 2009
- Messages
- 1,074
- Reaction score
- 40
I've only done 2 AG brews, and the "add water let the MLT stabilize" first worked best for me - hit the mash temp dead on. Missed my mash temp by 14 degrees by trying the grain first method, even with trying to preheat the tun.
vfinch
Well-Known Member
I'll put my vote in for sparge water then grist camp...
My series of steps is:
-Preheat mash tun with boiling water (usually 2L), while the sparge water is heating
-Dump the preheat water
-Record the mash tun interior temperature
-Record the grist temperature
-Adjust the sparge water temperature accordingly and add it to the mash tun
-Let it sit for 2minutes and measure the water temperature
-Slowly add the grist while stirring.
Works like a hot damn for me. The extra temperature readings help my hit temperatures more consistently.
My series of steps is:
-Preheat mash tun with boiling water (usually 2L), while the sparge water is heating
-Dump the preheat water
-Record the mash tun interior temperature
-Record the grist temperature
-Adjust the sparge water temperature accordingly and add it to the mash tun
-Let it sit for 2minutes and measure the water temperature
-Slowly add the grist while stirring.
Works like a hot damn for me. The extra temperature readings help my hit temperatures more consistently.
I used to preheat the mash tun, but then I realized I was just wasting hot(boiling) water. So I started putting water in above the strike temp, waiting for it to drop to the strike temp, then adding the grain. Both methods hit the temps with 1 degree. But the second involves heating less water.
vfinch
Well-Known Member
I probably should change too, but the boiling water I use is straight from the kettle so it's pretty easy.
Ok on a theoretical side: What would be the down side of mixing the grain/water cold then heating (via herms or whatever) the whole thing up to mash temp?
I'll take a stab at this....
You might pull out starch (unfermentable) you wouldn't normally want in the lower temps while you were heating up the grist. Which is why we keep the temp at specific points depending on what we are trying to extract from the grain.
Synovia
Well-Known Member
In addition to what the guy above said, you're probably more likely to scortch somehting when you're heating grain and water than just heating water.
DirtyMcCurdy
Well-Known Member
Am I the only one who adds a little of both back and forth? I add water to my mash tun, then grain, then water, then grain, then water, then grain, then water. Normally about 4-5 cycles between the two.
iamacheetah
Member
upon advice of a friend/technical advisor, I add grain to preheated mash tun. I use a braided line in the bottom of a rectangular cooler. I keep my tun lower than my hlt and I fill up my tun from the bottom up. I stir as I go and my mash temps stay on target for the entire mash. I like it cause its clean and easy. Just my 02 cents
David
David
