Graham crackers/graham flour in imperial stout

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Rob2010SS

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Brewed a s'mores stout a little over 2 weeks ago. In the mash, I added 4 whole boxes of honey graham crackers, crushed up and mixed in. (I did almost forget about them and added them AFTER dough in, so they were probably only in the mash tun for, say, 80 minutes or so - I did a 90 minute mash). Regardless, I would think 80 mins would be enough... In the last 10 min of the boil, I added 39oz of marshmallow fluff. (I'll get to why this is relevant further down...)

Fast forward to 2 days ago, I pulled a sample to check gravity, and of course, taste it. The taste and the smell were awesome. Taste was immediate smoke from the smoked malt which faded quickly into roastiness and chocolate. Smell was roastiness followed by a slight chocolate smell, and then on the very back end of the smell, was a SLIGHT "sweetness" that was so faint, I almost missed it. However, no graham cracker smell or taste was present.

The slight sweetness that I was getting on the smell, I'm thinking that either came from the marshmallow fluff or the graham crackers, just not sure. However, it's not what I wanted from either.

I have a plan for the marshmallow flavor so I'm not worried about that. My question is in regards to the graham cracker flavor. The way I see it, I have 3 options...

1. Add graham crackers to a secondary vessel and let the beer sit on that for a while.
2. Add graham flour to a secondary vessel and let it sit.
3. Find a graham cracker extract and give that a shot.

I'm not a fan of extracts - at all. To this day I have yet to try one that I like. I've tried the Apex flavors, the amoretti flavors, and brewers best. By far, brewers best was the best one but still not good. So if possible, I'd like to avoid the extract option.

I have zero experience with graham flour. How is that compared to graham crackers? Anyone had any luck with using either graham cracker or graham flour in a secondary vessel and getting the flavors into the beer?
 
i thought graham flour was just whole wheat, coarsely ground? if you're looking for the cracker flavor, maybe look into adding the spices.....
 
i thought graham flour was just whole wheat, coarsely ground? if you're looking for the cracker flavor, maybe look into adding the spices.....

I've heard that too... I guess that makes 4 options. I felt like that option had the biggest chance for a screw up so I wasn't thinking too heavily on that. I suppose i could break open a chocolate stout I have in my fridge and do some sampling to see what works.

Totally being lazy, I know, but also trying to not reinvent the wheel here. Anyone been successful with the spices and feel like they nailed the graham cracker flavor?
 
I would avoid gunking up secondary by adding actual graham crackers or flour. I think trying to do it with spices is probably the way to go at this point. What was the grain bill? Maybe next time up the malts that promote biscuit type flavors?
 
so use some honey, wheat, and throw some cinnamon in the boil......probably need to toast the wheat a bit to emulate the cooking process....

edit: might be best to use the honey as a back sweetener....
 
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Graham flour is just coarsely ground whole wheat flour. I wouldn't add graham crackers or flour to the secondary. Take the mentality of Randy Mosher or Drew Beechum, have the food inspire the flavors. The main flavors in graham cracker are toasted biscuit flavors, cinnamon, molasses, and maybe a touch of vanilla. Marshmallows are just sugar, gelatin, air, and vanilla. Sounds like you have the campfire and chocolate down.

I would try making a alcohol tincture of cinnamon and dose a glass with small amount and see if that gets you there. If it goes in the right direction you try adding small doses of vanilla extract. Medicine droppers or children's medicine syringes work well for dosing small calibrated amounts. If you're looking for more perceived sweetness, maybe lactose. Lactose may also accentuate the chocolate character too.



Like TandemTails mentioned, Change the malt bill to increase toasty, biscuit flavors (that's British biscuits, not American).
 

i know their only up to a couple hundred gallons this year, but typing that in italics is insensitive to their problem..... lol

edit: and i was told on this forum, sorbate just prevents the yeast from reproducing and won't stop active fermentation, just stop it from happening....
 
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I would avoid gunking up secondary by adding actual graham crackers or flour. I think trying to do it with spices is probably the way to go at this point. What was the grain bill? Maybe next time up the malts that promote biscuit type flavors?
Yeah the more I think about it, I agree with you. I think spices are the way to go.

Ive attached a screenshot of the grain bill. I originally had honey malt in there as well but I second guessed that and took it out.
20191106_180636.jpeg
 
Graham flour is just coarsely ground whole wheat flour. I wouldn't add graham crackers or flour to the secondary. Take the mentality of Randy Mosher or Drew Beechum, have the food inspire the flavors. The main flavors in graham cracker are toasted biscuit flavors, cinnamon, molasses, and maybe a touch of vanilla. Marshmallows are just sugar, gelatin, air, and vanilla. Sounds like you have the campfire and chocolate down.

I would try making a alcohol tincture of cinnamon and dose a glass with small amount and see if that gets you there. If it goes in the right direction you try adding small doses of vanilla extract. Medicine droppers or children's medicine syringes work well for dosing small calibrated amounts. If you're looking for more perceived sweetness, maybe lactose. Lactose may also accentuate the chocolate character too.



Like TandemTails mentioned, Change the malt bill to increase toasty, biscuit flavors (that's British biscuits, not American).
When you say an alcohol tincture, what does that entail? Do you mean mix up some vodka and cinnamon and dose a glass with that to see what I get?
 
When you say an alcohol tincture, what does that entail? Do you mean mix up some vodka and cinnamon and dose a glass with that to see what I get?
Yes, I'll typically add a cup of everclear or cheap vodka (not to rubbing alcohol) to a mason jar. Add the spice and let it sit. And then strain it through a coffee filter. For cinnamon, I prefer saigon cinnamon for lighter beers, but it's more expensive. The cheaper cassia cinnamon (what's typically sold in grocery stores) is fine for darker beers. I'll break the sticks up into 1/4" pieces.
 
What's a good rule of thumb for how much cinnamon to start with in an imperial stout?

I started prepping a 1/2 tsp of ground cinnamon in 3oz of vodka. I do NOT want a strong cinnamon flavor. Just a very, very slight hint to help with the lack of Graham cracker flavor.

Is this enough? Too much? (5 gallon batch)
 
What's a good rule of thumb for how much cinnamon to start with in an imperial stout?

I started prepping a 1/2 tsp of ground cinnamon in 3oz of vodka. I do NOT want a strong cinnamon flavor. Just a very, very slight hint to help with the lack of Graham cracker flavor.

Is this enough? Too much? (5 gallon batch)

Hey chief, how did this go? Have you rebrewed with grahams or just sub extract in the end?
 
Hey chief, how did this go? Have you rebrewed with grahams or just sub extract in the end?
Meh, it was OK. I have not brewed with grahams again.

I ended up going with this extract. I tried both the brewers best extract and this one. The BB one was too sharp of a flavor, it wasn't pleasant on the palate. The hobbyland one was actually much smoother and actually tasted like grahams.

I'm not really sure how I'd go about it if I were to do it again. I might try the grahams or whole wheat flour in a secondary just to see what happens. I worry with that though that you'd need so much and you'd lose a lot of volume.

The spices that lump42 mentioned above might be the best way to go.
 
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