My plan is to brew Friday and I have about 6oz of Bry97 stored in a mason jar in my fridge under some beer. The jar has been stored in the fridge since 07-21-24 and like I said there is about 6oz of actual yeast or at least sediment in the jar. My question to you all is, how much of that should I use and how big a starter should I make? My thought is a liter starter and use maybe half the yeast in the jar. I don't have a stir plate so the shaken not stirred method is going to be in play. I have some dry yeast still sealed in the fridge just in case this does not work. Any input would be welcomed.
Gonna try my stored yeast
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I'd use it all and go with a 1.5L starter. Maybe build up from there if you really want a higher cell count?
I've had a chat with Omega, and they told me 100ml can innoculate 1L. Assuming that's fresh yeast. So 1.5L puts you right on the money.
I've had a chat with Omega, and they told me 100ml can innoculate 1L. Assuming that's fresh yeast. So 1.5L puts you right on the money.
I'd make a 1.5 liter starter using only 1/4 of the well homogenated slurry. That will yield a high count of newly grown cells, which is what you're after.
Here's a good yeast starter estimator:
https://www.brewunited.com/yeast_calculator.php
Here's a good yeast starter estimator:
https://www.brewunited.com/yeast_calculator.php
6oz is roughly 177ml. Most smack packs are 100ml. I wouldn't feel confident using only 2oz for a 1.5L starter.
Unless you are pitching into a big batch or a high gravity wort, I would not make a starter, assuming that you have top-cropped yeast. I can't prove it, but experience tells me that top cropped yeast is twice as potent for twice as long as even the cleanest colony collected from the bottom of a fermenter.
Just let the yeast warm up on the counter for an hour and aerate your wort as well as you can. You might be surprised.
Just let the yeast warm up on the counter for an hour and aerate your wort as well as you can. You might be surprised.
Is Bry97 considered "Top Cropping" yeast? I did not think it was. I think my plan is going to be to use about 3oz of yeast in a 1.5 liter starter. Do it Wednesday afternoon and then pitch it Friday afternoon when the wort is done. I have a packet of US05 and Bry in the fridge if this doesn't work out.
According to Brewfather, the OG on this should be in the 1.058 range, so not too over the top I don't think.
But of course, if you all think it is a bad idea I am up for doing more. I have 6oz total to use, so maybe all would not be a bad thing either
Tough to overpitch. I would go with wepeeler's advice. You could also do a vitality check. Let the mason jar warm up to room temp, put some wort in the mason jar and shake it up. Let it sit for 15 min and pour off only the wort into your awaiting starter wort. Basically, this culls the live from the dead cells as the live cells will go up into the wort and start eating and the dead will just sink and stay. So what makes it into your starter is only the good cells. This from the Chris White "Yeast" book. The times might be an approximation as I am reciting from memory.
Real s-n-s? Such as using a gallon jug, shaking wildly every few hours to create tons of foam, letting air in between shakes? Growth would be similar to a stir plate.
This is the growth estimate using 60 ml of your (mixed) slurry.
I estimate it will contain 60-120 billion cells (1-2 billion cells/ml). Using the middle value (90 billion).
Good info but I do not think you can treat a six week old mason jar storage the same as a "production date" under Your Yeast Details. Viability is a concern imho. If it was in a brink that was zero oxygen, then one could just pitch it but I have seen mason jar yeast go brown. Tough to know.
Thank you!
I love hearing comments and different views on this topic, such as yours.
It's all "wet-finger" estimation, so there's a wide spread of leeway, ripe for discussion.
I agree. I am trying to find my yeast path forward as I brew a lot of different styles but not back to back. I will be starting some soda bottle brinks shortly of full cakes from fermentations. The emphasis will be on zero oxygen introduction over the capture & storage life. I am hoping to keep viability over longer periods of time.
Yes, the shaken not stirred method. I don't have a stir plate, so I am going to give that a shot. I am up and down all night, so it should be ok I hope., If not, I have a packet of yeast in the fridge I can use. So, you are saying I should use it all?
I'd use 2 oz (60 ml) of the thick, homogenized slurry in a 1.5 liter starter, as I illustrated in post #8.
Use the screw cap on the 1 gallon growler/wine jug to shake it, as if it owes you money. There should be much foam created,* that's the essence of s-n-s. Then remove the cap and put your aluminum foil tent over the opening, so air (oxygen) can get back in.
Shake as often as you can, say once every 1-2 hours, if possible. Make sure to put the cap back on.
* Do not add Fermcap to your starter wort. You want lots of foam, most of the growth action is in the little bubbles.
Awesome. Would it be wise to do the starter a day or two ahead of brew day?I'd use 2 oz (60 ml) of the thick, homogenized slurry in a 1.5 liter starter, as I illustrated in post #8.
Use the screw cap on the 1 gallon growler/wine jug to shake it, as if it owes you money. There should be much foam created,* that's the essence of s-n-s. Then remove the cap and put your aluminum foil tent over the opening, so air (oxygen) can get back in.
Shake as often as you can, say once every 1-2 hours, if possible. Make sure to put the cap back on.
* Do not add Fermcap to your starter wort. You want lots of foam, most of the growth action is in the little bubbles.
So, here is my plan. My brew day is Friday, so Thursday I am going to make a 1.5 Liter starter using 1.5 liters of water 150 grams of light DME. I will boil the water, add he DME and boil again for about 15 mins. If I come up with less that 1.5 liters of wort I will add water to get it to the desired amount. I will take the yeast out of the fridge in the morning to get it to room temp before I pitch, cool the wort and pitch the yeast into my gallon sanitized glass container. Shake the holy crud out of it and let it sit on the counter where it will probably get to somewhere in the high 60's to low 70's. I will shake it as I walk by it and try and do so every hour or so. On Friday brew day commences. Usually my brew day ends with the pitching of the yeast somewhere around 2 or 3 in the afternoon, sometimes later than that. That gives my starter at leas 24 hours to do it's thing. Does this sound like a pretty good plan? This will be my first attempt at reusing yeast that has been sitting for a while. The last time I did it right after I kegged my beer in the fermenter so there was no lag time at all, maybe a day or so.
I know I am asking a lot of stupid questions, but this is how I learn and I am looking forward to adding yeast storage to my process so that I can get into the liquid yeasts and the different strains to make different styles. Thank you to those who contributed, again, I apologize for the stupid questions, but I gotta learn somehow. LOL Rock on!!!!!!!!!
I know I am asking a lot of stupid questions, but this is how I learn and I am looking forward to adding yeast storage to my process so that I can get into the liquid yeasts and the different strains to make different styles. Thank you to those who contributed, again, I apologize for the stupid questions, but I gotta learn somehow. LOL Rock on!!!!!!!!!
You might want to give it one more day since the yeast is 6 weeks old. Yeast needs some time to grow and even fresh yeast given a day before might still need some time if you want double the cells etc... Remember, the sole purpose of a yeast starter is to grow more cells. Give it plenty of time to grow. The 'night before' starter is really just to wake up what is already there. What you are doing is looking for growth. The waking up will happen naturally.
So maybe tonight would be better? My wife and son will be doing their fantasy football draft, so I can use the kitchen to do this. Other than the timing, do you think my numbers look ok? I think I will try it tonight and see what happens. Thanks for the input.
A little more time is always better for yeast than not enough. They keep on working even when they do not look like there are. Plus you will have time to study the pitch and see how well it is acting. It might not perk up like you want. Or it will take off. Either way, one more day will hurt it. I am not sure about the DME numbers as I have not used it in a while.
Well, we are off. The wort is at about 74 to 75. I am about to dump it in my gallon jug, sanitized of course and see where we go with this. Kinda cool if it works, but if not, I have a packet of Bry and US 05 in the fridge.
You've got a plan!
Make sure fresh air can get in between shakes.
Warmer is better/faster. Keep it at a minimum of 70F, and as high as 80F for faster growth.
After 12 hours not seeing much activity. Most if not all the yeast has settled to the bottom. I will continue though as I don't need it until tomorrow anyway.
Here is my yeast. Look ok?
Did you see any activity leading up to this?
Some foam at the surface, but nothing super huge like it would be with beer.
I should add that this pic was taken this morning when I got up, so it had been sitting for a few hours without being shaken. Thoughts? If it isn't worth it, I have a packet in the fridge at the ready.
I wonder if next time I should put an airlock on it so I know if there is any activity or not?
fluketamer
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i am confused i never make a starter when i repitch first generation slurry from wet or dry yeast.
have i been doing this wrong. so far no lag unless the yeast is older than a few weeks.
i hate to make a starter if i dont need to. why are you guys making a starter is it cause of the age of the yeast?
have i been doing this wrong. so far no lag unless the yeast is older than a few weeks.
i hate to make a starter if i dont need to. why are you guys making a starter is it cause of the age of the yeast?
Yes, the yeast was about a month old. It was in the fridge, but everyone said a starter would help. I am going to pitch a fresh sachet I think. I am not feeling good about the feedback I am getting.
I am about 15 mins until my boil is done. Another hour or so to cool so if I don't get anything by them I am going to pitch a new sachet of Bry97 and chalk it off as a failure on the repitch. I hit my preboil gravity and hate to screw up a day's brew by using a failed yeast starter.
fluketamer
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pitch the bry i am having very good results with it at the moment
Screw it. I pitched the starter. If it doesn't work, I will throw a packet of Bry97 in at a few days.
I think the starter was a proof of life with 5+ weeks in the fridge for storage. I would guess that your batch is not going to do well in comparison to fresh yeast as it appears a lot of the cells were not active or alive.
I agree. It will probably suffer the same fate as my blonde ale. Lol. But I had to try. Now I know that saving yeast isn't in the cards right now.
Yeast saving in a mason jar is limited to about 1-2 weeks. You can push it but why risk your batch? There is a 'yeast brink' approach which will allow the yeast to stay a lot longer. It is a closed process which mean zero oxygen exposure. Take it out of the fermenter into a vessel all under CO2 then store it cold under CO2. Pretty easy with the Kegland "Tee", quick disconnects and a 2 liter soda bottle.
Or just buy fresh yeast as needed.
Or just buy fresh yeast as needed.
Thanks for all the info. It is weird, I looked at the fermenter and all the sediment is gone and the wort is very cloudy, but nothing at the airlock. I checked the bucket and it is sealed up. The smell coming from it is very similar to when the beer is fermenting. I am sure it isn't doing anything, but I am going to leave it be for a week and see what happens. I am on vacation next week, so I am going to try and get that collar finished so I can ferment in a keg, transfer with no O2 exposure and, if I don't have room in my kegerator, I can store the keg in the ferm fridge at a lower temp under some CO2. I think that would help keep a keg at the ready, right?
OK, so after sitting in my fermenter in my ferm fridge since Friday afternoon with absolutely no activity in the airlock I am ready to admit defeat. But, and of course there is a but, I have a packet of Bry97 in the fridge that I was going to use on this recipe if I decided to not use the slurry from the jar. My question is, can I just dump the dry yeast in to save the batch, or just cut my losses and move on? I am ok either way, but was just thinking if it can be saved I would give it a go. Thoughts on this? If I am beating a dead horse, please say so. I don't mind dumping it if it is just not worth it. Thanks to all who looked and replied.
Yeast will do that to you. It is a huge learning curve. A lot of it is just relenting and playing by the yeasts' rules. I am always trying to learn how to handle them better. It is the most important part of successful brewing.
Yes throw the other pack of dry yeast in as you will not get much from the old slurry at this point.
Yes throw the other pack of dry yeast in as you will not get much from the old slurry at this point.
OK, so here is where I get to eat a little crow. Seems the yeast worked pretty well as I just checked my gravity and it shows to be at about 1.010. My brewfather sheet said it should be 1.012 so I am close. I noticed on the bucket that where the tie string for my dry hop addition goes might not be sealed well, so maybe the gas leaked out of there. Either way, it seems to have fermented perfectly. So, my plan at this point is to dry hop it for about 3 days, move it to a storage keg and keep it under pressure and in a closet.
Dang I feel like such an idiot. I read all the time to check the seal and I just did not do it. My gratitude to all of you who replied and now at least I feel a bit better about the starter I did and the yeast I stored. Will I do it again? Probably not until I can do the test tube freezer method, but glad to know this might have worked out ok. And for what it is worth, it has a very strong lemon smell like others I have done with Bry yeast. Rock On!!!!!!
Dang I feel like such an idiot. I read all the time to check the seal and I just did not do it. My gratitude to all of you who replied and now at least I feel a bit better about the starter I did and the yeast I stored. Will I do it again? Probably not until I can do the test tube freezer method, but glad to know this might have worked out ok. And for what it is worth, it has a very strong lemon smell like others I have done with Bry yeast. Rock On!!!!!!
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