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Gonna Give Cider Another Go

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Yesfan

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So, I bought two 64oz jugs of Martinelli's 100% apple juice. The jug said it is pasteurized. I have two one gallon glass carboy jugs. i also plan on kegging this batch. So I'm thinking my process is going to be.......

1) Sanitize the jug for primary.
2) Add juice, then add one campden tablet and let set for 24 hrs.
3) After the first 24 hrs, pitch the yeast (gonna use WY1335).
4) after fermentation is complete (or it hits around 1.014), add pectic enzyme (or does that go 24hrs after the campden, 24hrs before the yeast??), then back sweeten with apple juice concentrate, then keg.


I feel like I'm missing a step. I've read the stickies, but still a bit foggy. Is potassium sorbate is what's used to slow/stop fermentation? I think I have everything I need for the initial start, but I'm sure I could order the other things needed if I forgot them and get them on time while the cider is still fermenting.

Sorry for the stupid questions. I just want to make sure I have all my eggs in a basket.
 

cjbalough

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If it's pasteurized, there is no real need for the campden step. Add the pectic enzyme at the beginning, good idea to add some yeast nutrient too.
 

jcav

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My wife and I just made a cider on 1/31/16 and we used Martinellis' apple juice. We just tasted it yesterday, as it has been carbing in the keg. We used Safale S-04 yeast and man is this good, I mean really good. You will like this brand of juice. Good luck making yours!

John
 

worlddivides

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I used Martinelli's on my most recent cider too. It's very good stuff. As others have said, you add the pectic enzyme before you pitch the yeast and there is no need to add campden tablets to commercial apple juice since it has already had all the naturally occurring yeasts (bacterias, and other living organisms) killed through pasteurization before it is packaged. The only time you need to use campden tablets before adding the yeast is when you either make the apple juice yourself or get the apple juice from a local orchard that makes their own apple juice/soft cider without pasteurizing it.

The step you forgot, I believe, is to stabilize the cider before you keg it. There are several options for killing off the yeast, but which one you use is up to you. Potassium Sorbate is a very common one.
 

Evilgrin

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I REALLY like Martinelli's apple juice. Never made it into hard cider yet but the juice tastes extremely good. Indian Summer AJ used to be fantastic too but it does not seem as good to me anymore.
 
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Yesfan

Yesfan

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What temperature you going to ferment?

Probably 72F. I plan on just letting it bubble away on the kitchen counter since it's a one gallon batch. I'll be using WY1335 for the yeast.


I haven't started yet as I wanted to see what suggestions I got in this thread. I guess I'll go ahead and order the pectic enzyme and potassium sorbate to things to be ordered. When I add the enzyme, do I need to wait 24hrs before pitching, or can I pitch the yeast immediately afterwards? I usually ferment my beers in the mid 60s. Since the 1335 is a British yeast, is it also advisable to ferment at a cooler temp? I can ferment it cooler if needed as I have a temp controlled freezer in the garage I use for my brews. I didn't know if a higher fermentation temp is favored more for ciders than for beer, so thought I'd ask.


EDIT: I went ahead and ordered some pectic enzyme, potassium sorbate, and some yeast nutrient from Amazon. I also added a 20 pack of mylar bags for my bulk hops my club ordered. yay. Guess I'll start my cider when those items come in.
 

Maylar

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You can add nutrient and pectic enzyme at the same time you pitch the yeast. If you have temp control, then use it and keep it at the low side of what the yeast recommends.
 

CMcPherson

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Why not skip the nutrient if you're going to stop before dry and Sorbate?

I don't know of anybody else doing this but I like to add my pectin first a couple of days ahead and then rack onto K-Meta/Camden tabs after it has settled out.
I know this is an additional step that many may call unnecessary. But, why not get rid of all of the lees that you can right up front?
I go even further by letting my cider settle out a few day before I even add my pectin. I'm not recommending this last step because only a control freak with OCD would do anything like that.
 

laredo7mm

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Why not skip the nutrient if you're going to stop before dry and Sorbate?

I don't know of anybody else doing this but I like to add my pectin first a couple of days ahead and then rack onto K-Meta/Camden tabs after it has settled out.
I know this is an additional step that many may call unnecessary. But, why not get rid of all of the lees that you can right up front?
I go even further by letting my cider settle out a few day before I even add my pectin. I'm not recommending this last step because only a control freak with OCD would do anything like that.
At what temp are you doing all of this waiting? Room temp or chilled? Pectic enzyme is not very effective at lower temps so I use it at fermentation temp. I put in the enzyme and pitch the yeast at the same time. I don't k-meta at all.

But if you let the cider settle for a couple days, then add pectic and wait another couple of days, aren't you giving wild yeasties 4 days to take hold before you rack onto your camden?

I would think you would want to k-meta/camden first, let it sit for 12 hours, and then pectic enzyme it and let it sit. After that rack it off the solids that have dropped out before pitching your yeast.
 

CMcPherson

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I came up with this routine kind of on accident.
I bought 6 gals of local cider and put them in the fridge until I could get to them.
When I finally had the time it was almost a week later.
I noticed all of the shmutz that settled out on its own and racked off of it and added pectin.
I got busy and didn't add my yeast for a couple of days. The juice was at room temp during this time. Not long enough to start fermenting on its own.
By then there was another bunch of junk that settled out so I racked off of it again and pitched the yeast.
 
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Yesfan

Yesfan

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Just through something together at the spur of the moment. I decided to go with 1056 instead of 1335 for the yeast as I wanted to just leave it on the kitchen counter. The garage brewery is kinda of a wreck. Pitched the yeast (about 100mL of slurry, decanted) along with 1tsp of nutrient and 1/2 tsp of pectic enzyme.

The last two ciders I did didn't have a huge krausen. This may not either, but thought I would put a blow off just in case so SWMBO doesn't crucify me should the fermenter decide to pressure wash underneath my kitchen cabinets.


And I just realized, I did not take a gravity reading of the juice before pitching the yeast. :smack:
 
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Yesfan

Yesfan

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Well, here we go about 3.5 weeks later. Should I go ahead and keg it? If so, do I need to add the Sorbate or will kegging (cold crashing) inhibit fermentation?





EDIT: Picture looks a bit fuzzy, but when I took it I could make out the "one gallon" on the jug.
 

Maylar

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I dunno if it's just your fuzzy pic, but that doesn't look clear enough to keg or bottle yet (IMO). Where is it with regard to gravity now?
 
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Yesfan

Yesfan

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I kegged my cider yesterday. It was very clear. The fuzzy pic in my previous reply does it no justice as I didn't hold the camera steady apparently.


I didn't take a FG reading. Really didn't see the point as I had forgotten to take an OG reading when I made it. I'm sure it's below 1.010 as it had a pretty dry taste to it. It also had a hot alcohol bite to it.

I made this on 3-17 and kegged it on 4-25. How long do you think it will take for it to mellow out a bit? I have no problem if it needs to age a bit. I figured I can just let it sit on gas, at serving pressure, until it's ready to be tapped. Then thought about blending it with Sprite or similar. Here's a pic about a week before kegging.


 

pumpkinman2012

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Why are you adding sorbate to the cider?
Do you plan on back sweetening it once fermentation has completed?
Potassium sorbate will not stop an active fermentation, it is used to stop any new fermentations, it does this by rendering micro-organisms unable to reproduce.
Sorbate is usually added along with Potassium Metabisulfite.
Potassium metabisulfite is used to prevent spoilage and further fermentation by removing oxygen, by removing the oxygen it chokes off micro-organisms and will prevent them from reproducing.
It will not stop a fermentation, together Meta and sorbate will prevent any new fermentations.
 
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Yesfan

Yesfan

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Why are you adding sorbate to the cider?
Do you plan on back sweetening it once fermentation has completed?
Potassium sorbate will not stop an active fermentation, it is used to stop any new fermentations, it does this by rendering micro-organisms unable to reproduce.
Sorbate is usually added along with Potassium Metabisulfite.
Potassium metabisulfite is used to prevent spoilage and further fermentation by removing oxygen, by removing the oxygen it chokes off micro-organisms and will prevent them from reproducing.
It will not stop a fermentation, together Meta and sorbate will prevent any new fermentations.


I didn't add any sorbate to the cider. I don't see it in this thread, but I'm pretty sure I read that sorbate was mainly if you planned on bottling. I can't remember to be honest. I kegged mine. I'll probably just half and half it with Sprite, stout, whatever. It's only a gallon so if it tastes like ****, I'll just dump it and stay with beer.
 

pumpkinman2012

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I apologize if my post came across as if I were criticizing you, that wasn't my intention. What I was trying to say was that unless you are back sweetening, you don't need to add sorbate.
 
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