GF mashing experiment

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glutarded-chris

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I did a mash experiment at the end of June inspired by various discussions on the forum. Sort of hijacked the thread so I am starting a new one. The previous post was post #14 of the following:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=583572

That test indicated to me that it was beneficial to first take the grain up close to 170F and then drop the mash temp back down for the enzymes.

This time I wanted to see if there was any benefit for a long rest close to 170F and see how the gravity varied with time on the final rest.

Again I did 3 parallel mashes, each with the same pale ale grain bill (8lb each). This time with the same crush, once through with 0.020” gap on the rollers.

Grain Bill:
63% pale millet
13% pale buckwheat
6% Vienna millet
6% Munich millet
6% crystal rice
6% flaked corn

Mash 1: 15min rest at 168F and then drop to 145F with enzymes
Mash 2: 30 min rest at 168F and then drop to 145F with enzymes
Mash 3: 45 min rest at 168F and then drop to 145F with enzymes

I took gravity readings every 15 minutes on the second rest from 1 hour into the rest up to 2.5 hours into the rest.

The 15 minute 1st rest at gelatinization temp was the best. My guess is that is because it resulted in the least denaturing of the enzyme contribution from the grain. What surprised me was that there was a second increase in gravity right at 2 hours on the second rest for Mash 1 and Mash 2. I did not expect that!!! Mash 3 seemed to just climb steadily to final. I will try to post the graph of the data I took.

What I get from this is that a short gelatinization step is good and then wait until the gravity stabilizes somewhere around two hours into the second rest.

After combining extraction from all 3 mash batches, I ended up with about 21ppg. I figure if I do the whole thing like Mash 1, I would probably get about 22. I now have a new process!
 
The first rest was at 1.3 quarts/lb grist ratio and the second was 1.5. The total sparge water used was just over 1.1. Because the sparge is go generous, I do have to boil longer to bring the volume down.
 
Chris, very interesting the parallel at 2 hours. In my experience from my last brew it is important to hit the gelatinzation temperature above 160. Which enzymes are you using for the mash?

A little update, I performed a triple decoction last week. It was the longest brewing day of my life, this beer will be called blood, sweat and tears. The grain bill was a total of 12lbs of Grouse Millet and 2lb's of Eckard Rice Malt. I did one pass using a Monster Mill 2 roller at .63mm and 2lbs of rice at .80 and then at .70mm. I had a stuck sparge during my first runnings which I think affected the numbers and also during my first sparge. My first runnings were 1.060 and I collected between 5.5-6 gallons at 1.048 pre-boil and post boil SG was 1.055 and FG was 1.019.
 
DRV,

The enzyme I use is Diatase from E.C. Kraus. It is effective and easy to get. I have intended to experiment with others but have not gotten around to it. The Diatase seems to work much better than the amylase that was available at my LHBS.

If you don't want to move your rollers around, you should try running it all through together at 0.63mm. I now run mine through with 0.50mm and when the buckwheat and rice is mixed in well, it goes right through just fine. This probably only works when the larger grain is 25% or less of the grain bill.

What yeast are you using? My batches with US-05 have been finishing at 1.008 and I just kegged one that finished at 1.006 with Nottingham. The batch I brewed this past weekend I split into two and pitched Windsor on one and Copper's on the other.
 
Hey Chris, I am hand milling the grain and if I go lower than .70mm it jams. I figured I start a little wider and then step down. I am going to be brewing in the next two weeks and plan another decoction. I am going to see if I have issue with stuck sparges again. I am hoping I will improve the first runnings because I believe I can get more out of the grain.

I used safale-05 in past batches it has fermented down lower, what's different this batch is that I did not add any sugar during the boil. Possibly because of the decoction I produced more non-fermentable sugars in comparison to fermentable sugars being that I was hitting those higher temperature rests.
 
Chris, this is so fantastic. I can't thank you enough for taking the time to do the xbeeriment and posting your results. This answers my own question on how long to do the first gel rest at 170F. I will be doing my next batch using your recommendations. Thanks a million!
 
My next Batch will be based on what I have found and what you have shown here.

I will get the Millet to start the enzyme state and remove most of the liquid. I will replace with same amount in Mash tun and raise temp to 76Cel(168.8) for 15-20mins until it gels. Then I will add the enzymes back in and leave for 120mins and see what happens. This will test the natural enzymes out and then if I need to I will try to source out other enzymes to add.

Chris thanks for the full scale test. :)
 
Thanks guys! I have to confess, the results of the "xbeeriment" were a little unexpected. Nice that it seems I don't have to add any complications to the mash process to make an improvement! These two xbeeriments are yielding 18 gallons total, so it will take me a while to be in a position to brew again :)
 
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