GF Blue Moon Recipe (?)

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videojunkie1208

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I asked for a Blue Moon clone on the ZTHB group on FB, and got this back as a recipe, I am adding some of the directions that I have cribbed for the mash instructions, and I'd love to get some feedback before I drop almost $70 on my very first beer brew (including all the enzymes).

My plan is to do straight BIAB, as on the hot side I have no means for recirculation or anything, so it's a a straight stovetop 2.5 gallon (finished?) batch. Fortunately this is going into my Flex +, so I have lots of space for trub to drop out, and a racking arm to avoid as much as possible. I plan on kegging the finished beer in a 5 gallon keg, with a closed transfer from the Flex. I'm guessing that I'll then have to force carbonate.

ingredients:

4 lbs Vienna millet malt
1 lb Biscuit rice malt
1 lb flaked quinoa
0.5 oz Hallertauer hops @ start of 90-minute boil
3/4 tsp ground coriander @ 10 minutes 'til flame-out
1/6 tsp ground sweet orange peel @ 5 minutes 'til flame-out

lots of conflicting advice on what yeast to use, but currently my thoughts are Mangrove Jack M20.

looking at a stepped rising temp mash (remember, I am trying to keep this stupid simple)
6 ml Ondea Pro
6 ml Termamyl
90 minute mash @145*
rising to 30 minute mash @ 175
90 minute boil

expected OG 1.045 (?)
expected FG 1.010 (?)

as far as milling goes, I have a crop duster (gaps down to .025"), and I plan on picking up a corona mill for the millet. I understand that I want to grind this to a cornmeal / gritty flour texture.

My biggest question is for the water, I plan on getting 5 gallons of distilled water, so I know I'll need to add salts and minerals, but that's totally out of my wheelhouse. It looks like I need 4.5 gallons pre boil water, so should I just start there, and do a full volume mash?
 
0.025" gap on the crush should work for millet, just run it through twice. If you set it to 0.030" gap, you can just run it all through together. That is what I do and I just run it through twice to be sure.

Problem with using distilled water is it is hard to get calcium content high enough without overloading with chloride and sulfate. My opinion is that the best option is to get a Ward lab analysis on your local water and use a chemistry spreadsheet to adjust to your desired chemistry. Nature is much better at getting calcium into the water as pure calcium is nearly insoluble without a lot of effort. Before you are ready to commit to a test of your water, I would either use bottled water or just use your local water and work with it. If you are not on direct well water, your water may have chloramine, so you need to treat with Sodium Bisulfite to eliminate the chloramine.

Personally, with GF malts, I would add some flavoring and aroma hop additions, but I would just give it a go. Once you have a baseline, you can experiment with steering it toward what you like. What you have above will be drinkable no matter what.

I would plan on at least one batch sparge step. Just giving the opportunity to rinse the extra sugars out of the grain is a good idea when you are trying to get the most out of your GF malt.

If you want to do half batches, I would consider getting a 3 gallon keg. I have extra 2 gallon and 3 gallon kegs (1 each) and they come in handy when making small batches. I now make 8 gallon batches and the 3 gallon comes in handy. I just don't have kettles large enough to do a double batch, but grain handling and boiling, I can get up to 8 gallons. Same effort on brew day for 8 gallons as 5 gallons!
 
I agree with Chris: DO A SPARGE! Lifting the bag and rinsing those grains will bump up your efficiency.

I'm sure the recipe would be fine, so not gonna comment much on that. However, you're gonna have big time final gravity issues with that mash (I know from experience). You'll most likely finish at 1.030. I tried doing this same thing a couple of times and even added up to 7% sugar and still only got to 1.020. You really need some SEBAmyl L or Diastase to get the gravity down and unfortunately the rising mash won't work for that. Also, bump the Ondea to 9ml.

My suggestion:
170-180 for 30-60 min with 6 ml Termamyl
140ish for 60-90 min with 1.5 ml SEBAmyl L & 9 ml of Ondea Pro
Mash out/sparge

You can drop the temp by starting with thicker mash and adding cold water.

As for your water, I wouldn't worry too much about it at this stage. Your tap water would most likely be ok for this run and then you can tweak things as you go. Good Luck!
 
I think I'll just use bottled water like @glutarded-chris suggested. He also suggested adding additional hops, I know nothing about hops, other than you add them to beer. Keep in mind that I am shooting for a Blue Moon style hefeweizen, not an IPA.

I was hoping not to have to buy both Ondea Pro and SEBAmyl L, but it looks like that's just how its going to work.

on sparging, can I just use a pan to dip out some of the wort, and pour it back over the bag, or should I prepare a second pot of about 3/4 gallon boiling water to pour over the draining bag?
 
I think I'll just use bottled water like @glutarded-chris suggested. He also suggested adding additional hops, I know nothing about hops, other than you add them to beer. Keep in mind that I am shooting for a Blue Moon style hefeweizen, not an IPA.

I was hoping not to have to buy both Ondea Pro and SEBAmyl L, but it looks like that's just how its going to work.

on sparging, can I just use a pan to dip out some of the wort, and pour it back over the bag, or should I prepare a second pot of about 3/4 gallon boiling water to pour over the draining bag?

You don't need extra hops in a Wit. I would use Mangrove Jack M21 Belgian Wit yeast. Also, 90 minute boil isn't necessary, 60 will do. For sparging, you can heat some water separately, pull up the bag and pour over to rinse the sugars. Or, some people pull the bag and dip it into another pot or bucket like a giant tea bag.

Just know ahead of time that things probably won't work out just right on the first go. It will take a while to dial in your system and to get the right gravity, volume, etc. You WILL make beer. Enjoy it and tweak as necessary. Cheers
 
What's the difference between M20 and M21? Someone also suggested WB-06, but I have read enough bad reviews of that that I think I am going to avoid it.

from Mangrove Jacks:

M20
Deliciously smooth, light golden in color, full bodied aromas of vanilla and banana and a lingering aftertaste. This yeast produces a silky mouth feel and rich body.
Suitable for brewing Hefeweizen

M21:
A traditional top-fermenting yeast that has a good balance between fruity esters and warming spice phenolics. The yeast will leave some sweetness and will drop bright if left long enough.
Suitable for Witbier,
 
I've been watching the ZTHB thread on CERAMIX and I am wondering if that is an all in one enzyme that can replace all of the various enzymes that we usually need. but $80 for a 1lb bottle is a bit steep (although it should be able to process several hundred lbs of grain! - so from a per brew perspective it's pretty cheap!)

I've reached out to them regarding the shelf life for the enzymes.
 
I've been watching the ZTHB thread on CERAMIX and I am wondering if that is an all in one enzyme that can replace all of the various enzymes that we usually need. but $80 for a 1lb bottle is a bit steep (although it should be able to process several hundred lbs of grain! - so from a per brew perspective it's pretty cheap!)

I've reached out to them regarding the shelf life for the enzymes.

Ah, ok. Now I'm realizing who you are on the FB page. Too much to keep straight!

I'm really excited about Ceramix. It was such an easy brew day yesterday using Ceramix and Ondea. Aaron said his batches were over attenuating, so, I'll see where mine ends up.
 
Regarding yeast, if you are doing a blue moon clone I would just go with US-05. The mangrove jack yeasts are for the German and Belgian wheat beers where the flavors the yeast impart are very important to the style. No so with blue moon. I heard an interview recently with Keith Villa, the original brewer, and they definitely used/use a neutral west coast strain. I use 05 for my Bells Oberon clone, another American style wheat beer, and it works very well for that.

That being said I just used the MG Belgian Wit yeast and am very happy with it.
 
After watching all of the reviews of Ceremix, I took advantage of the $25 off, and ordered a 500g container. as budget is tight, I plan on using it as my only enzyme addition, and following the rising step mash schedule.

I have ordered everything (except the cardamom as GFHB is out of stock), and am looking forward to my first beer brewing experience. Should be entertaining.
 
Finally brewed this today. Went pretty well.

OG into the fermenter was 1.057.
20200718_194417.jpg
 
I put some numbers into the Brewhouse Efficiency Calculator, subbing flaked quinoa for flaked oats (2.2 *L) and it suggests that I got about 75% efficiency. Took a sample over the weekend, and we're down to 1.016, right at 5.4%% ABV, and the color has lightened remarkably. It's cloudy as heck, but I chalk that up to a combination of it still fermenting (stirred up trub), my lack of experience, and no fining agents (whirflock / irish moss, etc) being used.
 
Or, go to the beer store. Buy enough Blue Moon to fill a corny keg and tell her you made it.

Um. You do understand that the GF stands for 'gluten free' and not 'girl friend'. If I could still drink store bought Blue Moon, I wouldn't need to go through all the effort to brew my own...

Besides, my wife isn't really a beer drinker. She's my scotch drinking girl.
 
Um. You do understand that the GF stands for 'gluten free' and not 'girl friend'. If I could still drink store bought Blue Moon, I wouldn't need to go through all the effort to brew my own...

Besides, my wife isn't really a beer drinker. She's my scotch drinking girl.

Oops...
 
Bottle carbonation went great (4oz of honey) nice head, and it stayed carbonated through the last sip.
Flavor is really good, but a bit bitter to me (but it's been about 6 years since I've had a beer).

I would change the recipe by changing the spice mix. Probably 3 grams of Orange Peel, and 1 1/2 grams of Coriander

2020-08-06 18.32.34-1.jpg
 
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