GF Black ipa "all grain" recipe - single infusion mash

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Wrekked

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Grain
6 # grouse malted pale millet
2 # grouse unmalted dark roast millet
2 # buckwheat
4 # flaked corn

Mash at 163 deg for 120 min in 4.5 gals.
Add to mash:
2.7 g CaCl
8.1 g CaSO4
1.5 tsp amylase
3 tbsp 5.2 stabilizer

After mash add (reason for quotes on "all grain"):
1 lb d-180 candi syrup
1 lb turbinado
To hit gravity

90 min boil
0.75 oz Chinook @ 90
0.5 oz Chinook @ 60
1.0 oz Chinook @ 30
1.5 oz simcoe pellets @ 15
2.0 oz simcoe pellets @ 0

Pitch us-04 fermentis hydrated at 70 deg.

Notes:
Millet mashes seem to be really alkaline. This took 3 x recommend amount of 5.2 stabilizer to get into pH range (5.2-5.5). Also used 3x recommended amylase because last gf was so inefficient. I calc ed this one at 90% overall ( including sugar and corn).

O.g.= 1.072

14 days in primary @ 60 deg. Still at 1.030. Stuck? (Agree with glutarded Chris, probably need to pitch again). Tastes great though. Lots of body. Very rich. Planning big dry hop in secondary. Not sure what kind yet.
 

DRV

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Hello Wreckked, are you monitoring the PH of mash? I wanted to know more about how Millet mashes tend to be more Alkaline. Is the idea that specialty millet malt's don't change the PH as much as a Barley or Wheat Malt would?

"Millet mashes seem to be really alkaline. This took 3 x recommend amount of 5.2 stabilizer to get into pH range (5.2-5.5)"

I just completed my third batch and it was my second all grain. A write up to come soon. For batch #4 I am going to purchase a PH meter but for now I have been conditioning my water outside of the MASH PH. I am noticing I am hitting my temperatures during my step mash but after drawing off 7 gallons I am hitting around 1.023-1.025 for 12 lbs of millet and 2 lbs of rice. I am hoping to improve this before adding enzymes to the mash.
 

jmitchell3

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I've not had good luck with s04. tends to be erratic in its attenuation...tends to drop early.

What was your actual mash efficiency (without sugar)? What amylase do you use? I just used White Lab's OptiMash product for the first time last batch and it calls for an initial ph of 6.5 for best efficiency. I added a few g of calcium chloride and gypsum with no acid on a BIAB batch and ended up with 5.5 ish. Interesting because that's in the range of what brunwater predicted without the 2ml of acid it was calling for...

anyways. looking forward to hearing how it turns out!
 
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Wrekked

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I wanted to know more about how Millet mashes tend to be more Alkaline. Is the idea that specialty millet malt's don't change the PH as much as a Barley or Wheat Malt would?
I do gf (for my wife) and conventional (for me) all grain using the same system, so I can provide some comparison. I use pH strips to check pH in the mash. I usually do this about 2 min after strike and again after about 10-15 min. My water (out of the tap) is mildly alkaline (~7.5) with very low TDS (almost no Ca) and little buffering capacity.

For the 2-row barley mashes (little or no specialty), I hit 5.5ish pH without any amendment (well, maybe a tad bit of StarSan residual in the mash tun), so it isn't just the specialty grains that drop the pH. I have read that the darker specialty grains will indeed drop it more than the standard base malts though.

For the gf (millet base malt), I was still at about 7-7.5 in the mash for my first batch, with nothing on hand to add to drop it. I got awful efficiency (~50%). For the 2nd back (black IPA), I got 5.2 stabilizer and added the recommended amount (1 Tbsp) into the mash. The pH was still about 7-7.5, so I added that amt over again. It came down a bit but was still high, so I added a 3rd Tbsp. That got me into the 5.5 range, which is where I thought I wanted to be (JMitchell's post has me rethinking that now though).

Maybe the better way to say it would be that the millet does not drop the pH much (if at all), even if using some pretty dark specialty millet (think you had the right idea).

For better effeciency, I think it may be best to use additives to hit the target pH. However, based on my stuck ferment it MAY be that the high temp of the millet mash works better with a higher pH than is typically targeted for conventional mashes. I'll have to look into that more.

I suggest using pH strips. I had a meter and it did NOT like the mash temps. They also need frequent calibration. Paper seems more reliable. I am currently using strips that cover too wide a range and they are not very precise, but they get me in the zone better than the meter. They make strips that are for 4.5 to 7.5 ish. I highly recommend getting those instead of a meter.
 
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Wrekked

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What was your actual mash efficiency (without sugar)?
If I assume max yields of 28 ppg for the pale millet and 25 for the unmalted dark millet and the buckwheat, and I assume that I got 100% from the flaked corn, then that leaves me at 81% from the millet and buckwheat.

What amylase do you use?
LD Carlson brand amylase. It's an alpha amylase. Not sure what the white labs is. According to Palmer, optimum pH for alpha amylase is about 5.7 (and beta is lower).

I havent re-pitched yet, but I did move to 68-70 degrees and stir up the yeast cake. If it doesn't go within a few days I will probably re-pitch but with US-05. I'm thinking it's the yeast.
 

jmitchell3

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If I assume max yields of 28 ppg for the pale millet and 25 for the unmalted dark millet and the buckwheat, and I assume that I got 100% from the flaked corn, then that leaves me at 81% from the millet and buckwheat.


LD Carlson brand amylase. It's an alpha amylase. Not sure what the white labs is. According to Palmer, optimum pH for alpha amylase is about 5.7 (and beta is lower).

I havent re-pitched yet, but I did move to 68-70 degrees and stir up the yeast cake. If it doesn't go within a few days I will probably re-pitch but with US-05. I'm thinking it's the yeast.

I use a hanna ph meter with room temp samples. Just take a few mils and pop it in the freezer a few minutes and it comes right down to room temp. The 6.5 would be room temp ph, so 6.1-6.2 or so at mash temps.

81% is excellent! Ive only managed 60-65% so far.
 
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Wrekked

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Ive only managed 60-65% so far.
That's pretty good for millet, from what I understand. You do BIAB? What temp? How long? Mine was a 2hr+ mash at 163 degrees
 

DRV

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I use a hanna ph meter with room temp samples. Just take a few mils and pop it in the freezer a few minutes and it comes right down to room temp. The 6.5 would be room temp ph, so 6.1-6.2 or so at mash temps.

81% is excellent! Ive only managed 60-65% so far.
Hey Jmitchell3, do you recommend the Hanna PH meter? I want to purchase a PH meter and was looking at a Hach portable.

http://www.hach.com/pocket-pro-ph-tester-with-replaceable-sensor/product?id=17990686211&callback=qs
 

jmitchell3

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Hey Jmitchell3, do you recommend the Hanna PH meter? I want to purchase a PH meter and was looking at a Hach portable.

http://www.hach.com/pocket-pro-ph-tester-with-replaceable-sensor/product?id=17990686211&callback=qs
Yeah I've liked the hanna unit. It is the "higher end" model with the accuracy to 0.01 +/- and is temp correcting with a replaceable sensor.

Although I didn't do this research before I purchased the hanna unit, I'd recommend investing in the unit with the most affordable replaceable sensor. I noticed on the site you provided the replacement probe is about $73 + $18 shipping on Amazon vs. the Hanna probe is $63 (free shipping with PRIME).

Using an electronic unit is a bit of a process: 1) the unit should be calibrated before each use (generally a two point calibration, 7.01 and 4.01 solution), 2) it needs to be stored wet. if the probe dries out it may go bad or go bad more quickly over time, and 3) samples must be cooled to the operating range of the device. Usually < 130F or so. Results will be more precise and consistent with a room temp sample, and the probe will last a looooot longer.

Cheers, let me know what you end up with and what your experience is!
 

DRV

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Finishing up bottling tonight of Brew #3, I am going purchase a PH meter before brew #4 in the next couple of weeks. I will update the thread once I have it in hand :)
 
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