Getting to the bottom of the 'off' flavor in my IPAs

[huskeypm]

Firstly, I apologize for asking this question as I'm sure some variant has been answered in these fora already. With so many responses however, I haven't found quite the answer I'm looking for.

I've brewed 60+ batches of beer of which the majority are IPAs. I like them, but they don't quite taste like the store-bought IPAs I pick up. Mine almost have a rye after-taste to them. I found that off-flavor is more intense in the sediment at the bottom of the bottle. I found recently that if rapidly cool my bottles (-4 F), that off flavor has all but disappeared and the robe has clarified. I suspect there are hop particulates causing the off-taste.

1. Is there something besides 'hop particulates' that might be giving the rye-like taste
2. Would filtering the beer pre- or post-dry hop help?

In beer we trust,
Pete

 

[TheMadKing]

Firstly, I apologize for asking this question as I'm sure some variant has been answered in these fora already. With so many responses however, I haven't found quite the answer I'm looking for.

I've brewed 60+ batches of beer of which the majority are IPAs. I like them, but they don't quite taste like the store-bought IPAs I pick up. Mine almost have a rye after-taste to them. I found that off-flavor is more intense in the sediment at the bottom of the bottle. I found recently that if rapidly cool my bottles (-4 F), that off flavor has all but disappeared and the robe has clarified. I suspect there are hop particulates causing the off-taste.

1. Is there something besides 'hop particulates' that might be giving the rye-like taste
2. Would filtering the beer pre- or post-dry hop help?

In beer we trust,
Pete

Can you add some more information:

What other descriptors might fit the flavor you're tasting/smelling? Spicy (black peppercorns, faint cumin, curry, "spice cabinet"?), earthy (dirt after rain, mushrooms, forest litter), grainy (chewing a grain husk), phenolic (clove, medicinal), thiols (oniony/cooked cabbage or other vegetables)

Are your beers bottle conditioned? (Assuming yes)

Is the flavor in 100% of your beers regardless of recipe?

Are there any hops you use in all of the beers that have this flavor?

Is the flavor still present if you pour carefully and leave all the sediment in the bottle?

How long are you storing them cold before drinking?

 

[huskeypm]

Thanks for your response.

> What other descriptors might fit the flavor you're tasting/smelling? Spicy (black peppercorns, faint cumin, curry, "spice cabinet"?), earthy (dirt after rain, mushrooms, forest litter), grainy (chewing a grain husk), phenolic (clove, medicinal), thiols (oniony/cooked cabbage or other vegetables)

Spicy/black peppercorn is probably the best descriptor, actually (this is similar to the flavor I detect when drinking a beer with rye)

> Are your beers bottle conditioned? (Assuming yes)

yes

> Is the flavor in 100% of your beers regardless of recipe?

It's consistently in my IPAs, never in my other beers (porters, stouts, wheats etc)

> Are there any hops you use in all of the beers that have this flavor?

I seem to consistently use columbus, which now that I google its flavor profile, 'spicy' is one of its descriptors.

> Is the flavor still present if you pour carefully and leave all the sediment in the bottle?

Yes, albeit generally its strongly attenuated relative to getting a mouthful of the sediment.

> How long are you storing them cold before drinking?

Eh, as little as a couple hours, but I try to go for a day or so.

Thanks!

 

[TheMadKing]

Thanks for your response.

> What other descriptors might fit the flavor you're tasting/smelling? Spicy (black peppercorns, faint cumin, curry, "spice cabinet"?), earthy (dirt after rain, mushrooms, forest litter), grainy (chewing a grain husk), phenolic (clove, medicinal), thiols (oniony/cooked cabbage or other vegetables)

Spicy/black peppercorn is probably the best descriptor, actually (this is similar to the flavor I detect when drinking a beer with rye)

> Are your beers bottle conditioned? (Assuming yes)

yes

> Is the flavor in 100% of your beers regardless of recipe?

It's consistently in my IPAs, never in my other beers (porters, stouts, wheats etc)

> Are there any hops you use in all of the beers that have this flavor?

I seem to consistently use columbus, which now that I google its flavor profile, 'spicy' is one of its descriptors.

> Is the flavor still present if you pour carefully and leave all the sediment in the bottle?

Yes, albeit generally its strongly attenuated relative to getting a mouthful of the sediment.

> How long are you storing them cold before drinking?

Eh, as little as a couple hours, but I try to go for a day or so.

Thanks!

So the first thing I would suggest is that once your bottles are carbonated, store as many of them cold as you can for as long as you can before drinking. That will smooth flavors and help the sediment stay in the bottom better. Like keep them in your fridge for 2 weeks before opening them.

Columbus does have a somewhat spicy character when used as a dry hop or whirlpool hop which I enjoy, but it is not common in many commercial IPA's, so that may very well be what you're tasting. You could substitute it for something like mosaic, galaxy, citra, or el dorado for a sweeter flavor like many commercial IPA's these days

Also, what yeast are you using?

 

[huskeypm]

This is really helpful. I can almost guarantee I don't rest the beers in the fridge more than a couple days. I guess I should brew a larger supply...

Thanks for the whirlpool comment - I hadn't heard of this technique, but I've got to try it now. I think that now the columbus has been implicated in that flavor profile I'm getting, I'll appreciate the flavor without worrying I'm mucking something up in the brew. I'll do a brew with a milder sub for Columbus just to be sure.

I almost always use US-05 for my pale ales. Occasionally I'll harvest the yeast for a brew or two, but I haven't noticed much drift in the flavor.

Thanks so much for your very informative responses.

Pete

 

[CascadesBrewer]

Sounds like you have some ideas. What are you using for water? Do you adjust at all for minerals or pH?

 

[huskeypm]

I've been using tap water from two different locations (KY and IL) with similar effects, but have never done anything to chelate minerals or buffer pH. It certainly wouldn't hurt to see what's in the water. I'll need to read up on what to watch out for and I'm sure theres plenty of discussion in this forum on water maters!

 

[seatazzz]

You might try using a tsp of gypsum in the mash for your IPA's; it's supposed to make the hop flavors brighter. I use it in mine (except the last because I ran out) and I definitely noticed a difference from previous IPA's done without it. Burton's Water Salts (available at LHBS and Amazon) are mostly gypsum with some papain, that's what I've used.

 

[TheMadKing]

You might try using a tsp of gypsum in the mash for your IPA's; it's supposed to make the hop flavors brighter. I use it in mine (except the last because I ran out) and I definitely noticed a difference from previous IPA's done without it. Burton's Water Salts (available at LHBS and Amazon) are mostly gypsum with some papain, that's what I've used.

Just a minor comment on this

Sulfate enhances the perception of dryness and bitterness but it will not correct an off flavor on its own and it doesn’t enhance hop esters (fruity floral)

Off flavors from water are unlikely unless they are from chlorine or very high iron and what he’s describing doesn’t sound like either of those, so I don’t think water chemistry is the right thing to look at first in this situation

 

[seatazzz]

Just a minor comment on this

Sulfate enhances the perception of dryness and bitterness but it will not correct an off flavor on its own and it doesn’t enhance hop esters (fruity floral)

Off flavors from water are unlikely unless they are from chlorine or very high iron and what he’s describing doesn’t sound like either of those, so I don’t think water chemistry is the right thing to look at first in this situation

Good points. If what the OP has is a true "off flavor" from possibly bad brewing practices, adding gypsum won't help; but it will enhance the hop flavor if used correctly, and the base beer is good. I also agree with the above, waiting a bit longer after bottles are in the fridge to try them. But then again, I've also always been a big proponent of trying homebrew during the entire process, to see how it evolves from sugary brown water to delicious beer, to have a better understanding of the process and for future brews.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

I've been using tap water from two different locations (KY and IL) with similar effects, but have never done anything to chelate minerals or buffer pH. It certainly wouldn't hurt to see what's in the water. I'll need to read up on what to watch out for and I'm sure theres plenty of discussion in this forum on water maters!

I am not sure what might drive a "rye like off flavor"...but maybe it could be a pH issue?? With alkaline tap water, a light colored grain bill will likely be in the 6.0+ range (mine comes in at around 6 with a moderate amount of alkalinity). I noticed a solid improvement with my IPAs and Pale Ales when I started adjusting...but I cannot say how much of that is dropping the pH down vs adding more Sulfate (my tap water has a moderate amount of Chloride and a low amount of Sulfate).

I have used Columbus quite a bit (it has been my generic bittering hop lately as well as in a recent IPA) and maybe get a touch of a dank/earthy character that could be Rye-like, but mostly find it to be a middle-of-the-road-classic-American-hop that blends in well with other hops. It is definitely worth trying out a batch without Columbus.