Getting a 10g whiskey oak barrel...now what?

[Crispyvelo]

I'm going to be picking up a 10 gallon oak barrel that was used just once for whiskey. I asked the distillery if the sulfur it or treat it in any way and they said, "nope, the staves will still be whiskey soaked". My goal is to eventually use it to make sour/funky beers, but here are my questions right out of the gate....

1. What would YOU put in it? This first use will have the most whiskey flavors, so I hate it o screw it up. The first beer that comes to mind would be some kind of dark, strong whiskey stout. Anyone have a tried and true recipe they can vouch for?

2. How should I treat the barrel before using it? Starsan rinse? Soake it with hot water for 24 hours?

3. Since it's only a 10 gallon barrel, any concerns with prolonged aging (either over oaking or o2 exposure?

4. I don't have anywhere too chilly to keep the barrel, so I'll likely keep in in my office closet which stays between 65-75 all year with our A/C habits. Will that work okay?

5. Should I make a beer, then use the barrel for secondary? I'm assuming I should still handle primary in buckets/carboys.

Any other tips or words of advice? Thanks!

Now I may have to drink my Deschutes Rye Abyss to expand my palate and get some ideas!

Chris

 

[microbusbrewery]

Congrats, I recently got one too. Here's my two cents.

1. I did a Russian Imperial Stout with a couple buddies and it's pretty amazing. Barleywine is another option. Here's the recipe we used which is based on an NHC winner, http://www.microbusbrewery.org/2015/09/whiskey-barrel-russian-imperial-stout.html
2. Depends on how it was treated and when it was dumped. If they bung it and you get it right after it's dumped, and you have a beer ready to go, I wouldn't do anything to it. If it's been sitting around for more than a week, especially without a bung, I'd fill it with 200F water for about 20-30 mins, then dump. That's what I did with mine as well as a 55 gallon barrel I picked up for a club project, and had no issues with either. I would not rinse it with Star San. If it's going to be a while before you fill it, there's a citric acid and potassium metabisulfite solution you can use that will keep anything from growing in it.
3. Keep in mind the surface area to volume is much higher than in larger barrels, so you probably won't age the first brew or two too long. To cut down on O2 transfer, I waxed mine but a lot of people don't. For mine I did 75% of the staves and left the heads un-waxed. Allegedly that approximates the O2 transfer of a larger barrel. I can't remember which one, but check out some recent Basic Brewing podcasts...in at least one they talk about waxing a little bit 8/25/2015 - Barrel Progression Experiment, 9/17/2015 - Sour Small Barrel Strategy, 11/12/2015 - Sour Small Barrel Strategy Part 2
4. Mine is in my basement utility room. Our club barrel is in my buddy's basement utility room. Both are about the same temps you describe. You basically want a room with fairly stable temps.
5. That's what I've always done...primary in a regular fermenter, then transfer to barrel for aging. This gets the beer off the majority of the yeast cake before aging. You'll still have more yeast drop out.

Here's something you can do if you get bored waiting for your beer to age, https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=563155

 

[porterpounder]

Whatever you do DO NOT BURN SULFUR IN A WHISKEY BARREL!! The alcohol vapors can ignite violently and seriously injure of kill you. Ask Gordon Strong about that.

I usually boil enough water to fill the barrel, wait for it to cool, dump and fill. Leaches some of the booze out, but not enough to really affect the flavors extracted by the beer/cider/mead put in it. If it's a new barrel taste it regularly, you may get the flavor you want after a short couple weeks rather than months.

 

[Crispyvelo]

Thanks for the in depth replies! I really appreciate the feedback. @microbisbrewery -tell me more about the imperial stout. How long did you age it for?

Thanks for the silver stick warning!

Do you find yourselves topping up the barrel like you do with wine? To make up for the Angels share?

 

[microbusbrewery]

Our RIS was only in the barrel for two months. It went in on 10/2/2015 and we pulled it out on 12/6/2015. The barrel really rounds out the flavors making it very drinkable right now...no long term aging needed. I started pulling samples after a month and the barrel character was very subtle. I pulled a sample every week after and I'd say it got pretty magical at week 6. At week 8 it was right where I wanted it so I racked to kegs to force carb. Oak and whiskey are very noticeable but neither dominate. You get some really nice chocolate and roast from the darker malts. That paired with the vanilla character from the barrel and it's pretty delicious.

 

[Dcpcooks]

I have done both primary and secondary fermentations in barrels. I did a 100% Brett C primary in a 30 gallon barrel and I've been using it like a solara. I take some out and add some wort back to replace it. I've added I fermented wort and wort that has been fermented with a sac yeast. Both work. In that barrel alternate between saisons and triples blending by trial and error.

If the barrel was freshly emptied I just add a fermented wort to capture the flavors. I don't clean or rinse it.

If it's been sitting for a while empty consider adding Camden tablets and a warm water bath to kill bad bugs. My friend runs the Ph.D. Lab at Northwestern university and has done extensive research on what works and what doesn't. His advise is Camden tablets and I've never had a problem.

To start add a beer that will benefit from the bourbon. I'd add it as secondary and It should be ready in a month or two since the surface area to volume of beer is high. You'll get flavor pretty quickly with smaller barrels. 30 -50 gallon barrels take more time.

After that you just want to add your bugs and keep it full. I try to never leave a barrel empty. I'll brew a batch ferment it with sac yeast. I'm not necessarily concerned with it reaching final gravity but I like to get it at least half way done. I let the Brett finish up the sugars and they eat up the old sac yeast too. You can do a primary fermentation in the barrels but plan on leaving head space and have something you can top off with in a few weeks.

Your temp is fine I leave mine ina warm garage that has 10-15 degree swings without issue.

You might want to look at the American sours book it has relevant information in it.

I usually only worry about angel share for beers aged more than 6-9 months. Then I top off with a similar beer.

Enjoy the rabbit hole!

 

[Jaybird]

I did a Bourbon Barrel Imperial Porter in mine when I first got it years ago. You don't need to water wash it or anything and dear god don't put flame to it..BOOM! You will not need to leave it in there very long as its going to pick up oak and bourbon flavor very fast! Once you dump it of beer you can leave a little bourbon in there to keep it moist. I bought 5 gallons of Black Velvet (ROT GUT) and stored it in mine to keep it wet. I forgot about it and a year or 2 (cant remember off hand) later that BV WAS AMAZING and the barrel was still perfect for beer. I have since re-coopered mine and used it for all kinds of stuff!

Good luck, have fun.

Where did you get the 10 gallon Barrel? I see 5's everywhere but rarely 10's.

Cheers
Jay

 

[Crispyvelo]

@dcpcooks thanks!! Great info! How warm does your garage get in the summers? Also, once I start doing sours in the barrel, would Camden tablets kills the bugs? I'm assuming that you would only want to consider using those if you are starting off with a barrel and need a 'clean canvas' to work in.

 

[Crispyvelo]

@jaybird thanks for the tips! I reached out to Seven Stills in SF on Instagram and they were happy to accommodate. They only had one 10g barrel left for sale though. Thy also sell 5's and 15's!

 

[Dcpcooks]

@dcpcooks thanks!! Great info! How warm does your garage get in the summers? Also, once I start doing sours in the barrel, would Camden tablets kills the bugs? I'm assuming that you would only want to consider using those if you are starting off with a barrel and need a 'clean canvas' to work in.

It doesn't get hotter than 75-80. The bugs love warm weather. I don't think you'll be able to go back from sour to traditional barrels. Once the Brett is in there it's impossible to remove it, to many places to hide. Vinnie. at Russian river uses dried staves to store and share bugs. So even bone dry wood won't kill the bugs.

 

[Crispyvelo]

Dupe post

 

[microbusbrewery]

I don't think you'll be able to go back from sour to traditional barrels. Once the Brett is in there it's impossible to remove it, to many places to hide. Vinnie. at Russian river uses dried staves to store and share bugs. So even bone dry wood won't kill the bugs.

+1 what dcpcooks said. Theoretically if you could raise the entire barrel to pasteurizing temps, and hold it there long enough to kill everything off, you could do it. But that's not really practical. At least not usually in a home Brewery.

Jamil Z warns of storing sour/wild barrels in close proximity to clean barrels. He said the barrels breathe with seasonal temperature and humidity changes and it's possible for critters to jump from one to another. Probably not an issue if you had them in different rooms, but if they're in a small space or in the same barrel rack, it seems like it could happen.