German Pils water profile experiment

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Witherby

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I am planning an experiment to compare two different German Pilsner water profiles. The two beers I am roughly aiming for are from the extreme opposite ends of Germany: the Schönramer Pils from southeast Bavaria and Jever from northwest Germany. These are among two of the most-beloved German pilsners, possibly because they are more heavily hopped (both around 40 IBUs) than many other German pilsners. But they have different water profiles. Jever has a much higher sulfate level and so should (even though they both have the same sulfate to chloride ratio) seem drier and more bitter.

Initially I was going to brew two identical batches with different water profiles, but I realized it would be easier to have one mash and then boil them separately and adjust the sulfate in one half to match the “Jever” profile since that is (I believe) where the magic happens in terms of sulfate level and perceived bitterness.

Several articles sent me down this path. The first is @mabrungard ’s March-April 2014 Zymurgy article on brewing water in Bavaria. In his discussion of how to deal with the high temporary hardness of the water in Bavaria, he states that:

“Lime-softening is another process that also drives off CO2 and causes chalk to precipitate. When the chalk has settled and the water is clear, the water is decanted off the sediment and is ready to use. This treatment reduces both hardness and alkalinity.”

The recent Craft Beer and Brewing profile of Schönramer and American brewmaster Eric Toft talks about their water:

The local water is subalpine—literally, the Alps are just over there—and rich in bicarbonates, which can make beer taste harsh. Toft says that at Schönram they use an old-fashioned method to “soften” the water: they add slaked lime, a.k.a. calcium hydroxide. That allows the bicarbonates to precipitate out. “It’s a simple physical process,” Toft says. “No ionization, no reverse osmosis.”

This really appealed to me. I am fortunate to have excellent tap water that is quite soft. I am lucky that I don’t need an RO system. I use Bru’n Water to help calculate some simple salt additions and pH adjustments and don’t want it to be any more complicated than that. In Martin’s article he gives a Bavarian water profile that I am guessing is close to what Schönramer has since their process is pretty much what Martin describes. I could start with RO water and try to exactly mimic that profile, but in the spirit of keeping it pure and simple (and because I want to hone in on a standard recipe and I have no interest in using anything other than my tap water in the future) I am going to go with what I have coming out of the tap and start with that. I add metabisulfite to deal with the chlorine and then I am going to add enough gypsum to get the profile in column 4. I will adjust the pH with lactic acid rather than through the salt additions.

My tap waterBavariaJeverTreated water for mashAdded Gypsum to boil
Calcium1116461735
Magnesium110511
Sodium225152424
Sulfate918753478
Chloride3410303434
Bicarbonate197560
Residual Alkalinity (RA74413

My recipe is a version of the Schönramer Pils recipe in Craft Beer and Brewing. Just German pilsner malt mashed in at 131 with rests at 145, 158 and a decoction to get it up to mashout at 168. Then I will divide the mash evenly and boil one half as is and the other will get a gypsum addition to raise the sulfate up to a more Jever-isch level. Hop additions are FWH, at 50 minutes, at 15 minutes, at 3 minutes and whirlpool. I just bought some 2020 crop German Hallertau Mittelfrüh whole hops for the late hop additions. My house lager yeast in WLP 830 (Toft says they use 34/70).

Anybody tried anything like this before? Does it actually make sense to do it this way (gypsum addition in the boil rather than before mashing)? Any predictions as to whether the difference will be noticeable?
 
Anybody tried anything like this before?
About 10 days ago, I bewed a small batch pale ale using RO water, adjusted the water (along the lines of 'brewing water chemistry primer') for a good mash, no kettle salt additions. Plan is to add 'minerals in the glass' after I rework my process for a four ounce pour.
 
Oh my god, what a wonderful article! Thank you for providing that link!

Schönramer is my favourite brewery (except for Lambic producers); my visit there was my highlight of the pandemic ridden last year.

Too bad there wasn't any info on the Surtaler Schankbier, which amazed me the most. But seeing how openly Eric Toft shared details about his brewing process, I might just work up the courage to drop them a mail asking for guidance.

To think they do a decoction on their (marvelous) imperial stout ... !

Jever is alright as well, but more often than not you get a skunked bottle (possibly related to the green glass bottles? ) and then it's just gross. And I'm talking about the availability in stores in Germany; guess it won't be any better in the US...
 
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Yeah I don’t think these changes are going to be large enough to notice much difference honestly. I know everyone says “bohemian” lagers should be made with incredibly soft water cause Pilsen has such soft water but most beers benefit from at least 50ppm of Ca.

Interested to hear your feedback but I’d consider hitting that 50ppm Ca mark and flipping which ion is dominant as another experiment.

10 Plato Wort Ion Contributions from Malt
S04 - Anywhere from 50-100 depending on base malt
CA - 25 PPM
CL - 200 PPM
MG - 70 PPM
NA - 20-40 PPM
 
I am planning an experiment to compare two different German Pilsner water profiles. The two beers I am roughly aiming for are from the extreme opposite ends of Germany: the Schönramer Pils from southeast Bavaria and Jever from northwest Germany. These are among two of the most-beloved German pilsners, possibly because they are more heavily hopped (both around 40 IBUs) than many other German pilsners. But they have different water profiles. Jever has a much higher sulfate level and so should (even though they both have the same sulfate to chloride ratio) seem drier and more bitter.
Any predictions as to whether the difference will be noticeable?

Thanks for posting your interesting experiment!
It appears you are using a known water report from the Jever area?
How can you be sure Jever Pils is not produced using some kind of water adjustments? The Jever brewerery produces more than 1 million Hectoliters of beer annually and is owned by a large conglomerate. Do you have information about what, if anything, they are doing at the brewery and what their actual water source is? All I'm saying is that there's a chance they are doing something with their water, since they have a huge investment in their plant and product.
I can't make a prediction about how your experiment will come out, but I would suggest adding a third comparison and use the same recipe with your own water without any adjustments and see what happens.
 
Thanks for posting your interesting experiment!
It appears you are using a known water report from the Jever area?
How can you be sure Jever Pils is not produced using some kind of water adjustments? The Jever brewerery produces more than 1 million Hectoliters of beer annually and is owned by a large conglomerate. Do you have information about what, if anything, they are doing at the brewery and what their actual water source is? All I'm saying is that there's a chance they are doing something with their water, since they have a huge investment in their plant and product.
I can't make a prediction about how your experiment will come out, but I would suggest adding a third comparison and use the same recipe with your own water without any adjustments and see what happens.
I think water adjustments would count as an ingredient and would be needed to be written on the label.

Removing something via, for example, reverse osmosis wouldn't need a declaration.
 
Yeah I don’t think these changes are going to be large enough to notice much difference honestly. I know everyone says “bohemian” lagers should be made with incredibly soft water cause Pilsen has such soft water but most beers benefit from at least 50ppm of Ca.

Interested to hear your feedback but I’d consider hitting that 50ppm Ca mark and flipping which ion is dominant as another experiment.

Martin Brungard argues that Ca much lower than 50 is possibly advantageous for lager yeast (see his article in the March/April 2015 issue of Zymurgy). I have brewed plenty of lagers with higher Ca levels, but since I am aiming for two beers that seem to have low Ca levels, I'll stick with that for now. I'm really just trying to find a German Pils recipe that I like and is easy to obtain with my water.

And maybe I should be aiming for a higher sulfate level. The 2015 BJCP description for German Pils states that "Modern examples of Pils tend to become paler in color, drier in finish, and more bitter as you move from South to North in Germany, often mirroring the increase in sulfate in the water." I don't know if there are other water profiles for other German pilsners that have a much higher sulfate level (I'm sure there are--Bamberg supposedly has a sulfate level of 240 and the Keesmann Herren Pils is one of the best I have ever had).

I am using the Jever profile that is in Bru'n Water. On the Jever website they say that: "The special thing about our brewing water is that it contains little lime and is therefore particularly soft. Soft water is an important property for making a high quality, lean Pilsener. Since our water is naturally particularly soft and pure, it allows us to add more hops, which creates the unique Frisian-tart taste."

There is a German brewers saying that "Weiches Wasser frisst Hopfen" (soft water devours hops) and so they can add more hops but have a less harsh bitterness.

Ultimately I am trying this because I happened to notice that both Schönramer Pils and Jever both have 40 IBUs and I have fairly well researched set of water numbers to try. And because of the geographical difference (look at a map and see where Schönram is and where Jever is--you couldn't get any more southern German and northern German!). And finally, I lived in Hamburg back in the mid-1990s and used to drink a fair bit of Jever.

It is actually a very easy experiment to do. I will probably have my homebrew club do a blind tasting and see how it goes. If it is noticeable then great. If not, I still get to drink beer and will try again with a bigger sulfate difference. I brew a lot of Franconian styles and usually aim for a higher sulfate level to get that classic Franconian dry finish. I have a fresh sack of IREKS pilsner malt and summer is coming. I plan on brewing lots of pale lager. Prost!
 
I think water adjustments would count as an ingredient and would be needed to be written on the label.

Removing something via, for example, reverse osmosis wouldn't need a declaration.

Under the Reinheigsgebot brewers can add salts to the brewing liquor before it hits the mash tun. But not after. If that is what you’re referring to.
 
Under the Reinheigsgebot brewers can add salts to the brewing liquor before it hits the mash tun. But not after. If that is what you’re referring to.
No I was more thinking of "food labelling laws", pretty much everything in there needs to be listed on the label here in Germany. I don't know if there are exceptions for beer, but it would surprise me a bit.
 
Martin Brungard argues that Ca much lower than 50 is possibly advantageous for lager yeast (see his article in the March/April 2015 issue of Zymurgy). I have brewed plenty of lagers with higher Ca levels, but since I am aiming for two beers that seem to have low Ca levels, I'll stick with that for now. I'm really just trying to find a German Pils recipe that I like and is easy to obtain with my water.

And maybe I should be aiming for a higher sulfate level. The 2015 BJCP description for German Pils states that "Modern examples of Pils tend to become paler in color, drier in finish, and more bitter as you move from South to North in Germany, often mirroring the increase in sulfate in the water." I don't know if there are other water profiles for other German pilsners that have a much higher sulfate level (I'm sure there are--Bamberg supposedly has a sulfate level of 240 and the Keesmann Herren Pils is one of the best I have ever had).

I am using the Jever profile that is in Bru'n Water. On the Jever website they say that: "The special thing about our brewing water is that it contains little lime and is therefore particularly soft. Soft water is an important property for making a high quality, lean Pilsener. Since our water is naturally particularly soft and pure, it allows us to add more hops, which creates the unique Frisian-tart taste."

There is a German brewers saying that "Weiches Wasser frisst Hopfen" (soft water devours hops) and so they can add more hops but have a less harsh bitterness.

Ultimately I am trying this because I happened to notice that both Schönramer Pils and Jever both have 40 IBUs and I have fairly well researched set of water numbers to try. And because of the geographical difference (look at a map and see where Schönram is and where Jever is--you couldn't get any more southern German and northern German!). And finally, I lived in Hamburg back in the mid-1990s and used to drink a fair bit of Jever.

It is actually a very easy experiment to do. I will probably have my homebrew club do a blind tasting and see how it goes. If it is noticeable then great. If not, I still get to drink beer and will try again with a bigger sulfate difference. I brew a lot of Franconian styles and usually aim for a higher sulfate level to get that classic Franconian dry finish. I have a fresh sack of IREKS pilsner malt and summer is coming. I plan on brewing lots of pale lager. Prost!

But you really have no idea what their water profiles are. It says they lime soften to reduce alkalinity but doesn’t say anything about adjusting after that. If you really wanted to see you can send samples into ward labs. Since they’re both of the same gravity and basically the same base malt (although from different maltsters who have different water profiles at their plants which can swing things) you can get a pretty good idea of how different their water profiles are.

Also keep in mind that you can lose 50% of your Ca in the mash depending on your alkalinity levels. Obviously not in Germany but just about everywhere else salts are always added the the kettle to ensure that the correct amount of Ca actually makes it into the beer. Cl and So4 ions make it through the mash but a lot of Ca stays behind.
 
But you really have no idea what their water profiles are. It says they lime soften to reduce alkalinity but doesn’t say anything about adjusting after that. If you really wanted to see you can send samples into ward labs.

Ultimately I really don't care how accurate it is in recreating either Schönramer or Jever water. My goal is to dial in MY preferred German Pils water profile (and I have tested my water at Ward labs and it matches very closely to what my town water report says) and this was a fun way to start dialing in that process. That is why I don't want to start with RO water and recreate some ideal. We ultimately don't know what they do. I want find a profile I like with minimal additions to my excellent soft water so I can repeat that in the future.
 
Ultimately I really don't care how accurate it is in recreating either Schönramer or Jever water. My goal is to dial in MY preferred German Pils water profile (and I have tested my water at Ward labs and it matches very closely to what my town water report says) and this was a fun way to start dialing in that process. That is why I don't want to start with RO water and recreate some ideal. We ultimately don't know what they do. I want find a profile I like with minimal additions to my excellent soft water so I can repeat that in the future.
Sounds like a good plan!
 
Ultimately I really don't care how accurate it is in recreating either Schönramer or Jever water. My goal is to dial in MY preferred German Pils water profile (and I have tested my water at Ward labs and it matches very closely to what my town water report says) and this was a fun way to start dialing in that process. That is why I don't want to start with RO water and recreate some ideal. We ultimately don't know what they do. I want find a profile I like with minimal additions to my excellent soft water so I can repeat that in the future.

What’s your target FG? How high do you like to carbonate them?
 
I usually pre-mix my minerals before brew day. Brewers Friend has a good water calculator to use.

You will need to get a water report of your water, jug or local municipality. I also use distilled on some water profiles. You end up with a water recipe build sheet for different beer styles. The jug shown has the water additions pre-built for a typical 7-gallon pre-boil volume. This one is Munich profile, there are others for hoppy beers, Burton-on-Trent, etc.
8785A094-EAD2-466E-A291-0A0B7F728E83.jpeg
 
What’s your target FG? How high do you like to carbonate them?

I am doing a Hochkurz step mash with one decoction to get a really well attenuated beer. I also kräusen most of my lagers to make sure they properly attenuate. Honestly I drink more German Pils than brew it and when I am brewing a pale lager it is most often a Buttenheim style pale Kellerbier that I serve in a German gravity cask with lower carbonation or a Festbier. I will certainly be aiming for a higher carbonation than I do for my Kellerbiers. I also naturally carbonate in the keg and spund so I usually get what I get. Clearly I'm more into the art than the science of brewing.
 
I have never attempted the slaked lime process personally, but I would take a pH reading on the decanted water post the slaked lime treatment. It may well have reduced Alkalinity as CaCO3 or as HCO3- bicarbonate ions, but these may be replaced by increased alkalinity (and pH) due to any OH- ions left over from the Ca(OH)2 addition. There may be a need for acidification. And remember that Ca(OH)2 will also add a lot of Ca++ calcium ions, and some of them may not precipitate out as CaCO3, so if you are shooting for low calcium that may also be a concern. It doesn't take much Ca(OH) to drive pH into the 11-12 range.
 
I am doing a Hochkurz step mash with one decoction to get a really well attenuated beer. I also kräusen most of my lagers to make sure they properly attenuate. Honestly I drink more German Pils than brew it and when I am brewing a pale lager it is most often a Buttenheim style pale Kellerbier that I serve in a German gravity cask with lower carbonation or a Festbier. I will certainly be aiming for a higher carbonation than I do for my Kellerbiers. I also naturally carbonate in the keg and spund so I usually get what I get. Clearly I'm more into the art than the science of brewing.

Cool. I do a lot of the same methods. I stopped doing Decoction cause I don’t think I can do it without oxidizing the sh*t out of the mash. I find attenuation and how the beer is carbonated should be considered when thinking of water profiles.

If you look at the Recipe Matt Brynildson gives for Pivo he recommends a specific CaCl addition as the FG is so low that it helps smooth the beer out where as the same addition using CaSo4 would make the beer to dry and harsh. I’ve been using the Andech’s strain for the last year and a half almost exclusively and it tends to finish a bit higher than the 34/70 derivatives and it’s a bit softer/maltier so a bit more aggressive water profile helps the crispness of the beer at the slightly higher FG and yeast profile.

I think natural carbonation always comes off as softer than forced so that also comes into play.

What’s your gravity cask setup like? I really want one.
 
What’s your gravity cask setup like? I really want one.

I bought a Schaefer Party Keg with Bavarian bung. It has a Sankey D spear and fittings which is a pain to remove the first time but overall I like it. Schaefer is German but they have a US office and so shipping was easy.

I have been using it for both real ale and "real lager." Right now I have a dark mild in it. I built a cask breather for my English cask setup this winter but I am going to start using the cask breather for lagers also since in normal use you vent the top and it starts oxidizing. That is fine for a party but for myself the cask breather extends the freshness. That is for a gravity pour. Because it has the Sankey fittings you can also use a Sankey to ball lock adaptor to serve with your regular keg setup.

NHC.jpg
 
I was going to brew this weekend but my LHBS was out of DME (!) so I couldn't make a starter. Hopefully next weekend I'll be able to brew.

On my weekly Zoom call with guys from my homebrew club I was telling them about my experiment and one guy asked why I would bother splitting the boils when I could just make one base beer with and then dose the finished beer with gypsum to match different sulfate profiles. Its so simple I think I may just have to do that instead. Then I could try more than two beers at once.
 
Just wanted to revisit this, as it is an interested idea. @Witherby any updates?

Thanks for asking. I almost forgot that I had planned this. For one reason or another I ended up not being able to brew this beer until June (three months later) and at that point I just needed to brew the beer and not fool around with an experiment. So I decided to just aim for something like my version of the Bru'n Water Jever profile:

Calcium 35, Magnesium 1, Sodium 24, Sulfate 78, Chloride 34

I am able to reach this with my tap water with some gypsum.

The beer turned out great. I suppose I should try brewing a southern German pils with lower sulfate levels (i.e., even less gypsum) or actually try my experiment, but I have even less time now than I did last summer, so probably not this year.

For now I did see canned Jever at my local liquor store last week, which we hadn't had available before, so I will pick up a 4-pack and hope for inspiration.
 
Thanks for asking. I almost forgot that I had planned this. For one reason or another I ended up not being able to brew this beer until June (three months later) and at that point I just needed to brew the beer and not fool around with an experiment. So I decided to just aim for something like my version of the Bru'n Water Jever profile:

Calcium 35, Magnesium 1, Sodium 24, Sulfate 78, Chloride 34

I am able to reach this with my tap water with some gypsum.

The beer turned out great. I suppose I should try brewing a southern German pils with lower sulfate levels (i.e., even less gypsum) or actually try my experiment, but I have even less time now than I did last summer, so probably not this year.

For now I did see canned Jever at my local liquor store last week, which we hadn't had available before, so I will pick up a 4-pack and hope for inspiration.

I've never had Jever in a can - cannot even recall ever seeing a can of it, come to think of it. For me, the lightstruck flavour is so deeply tied with the taste of Jever that I'd be rather curious what a non -skunked Jever tastes like.
 
I've never had Jever in a can - cannot even recall ever seeing a can of it, come to think of it. For me, the lightstruck flavour is so deeply tied with the taste of Jever that I'd be rather curious what a non -skunked Jever tastes like.
Jever happened to be the first beer I drank in Berlin in 2019 on my first trip back to Germany in 25 years. It was wonderful.
A18430B6-087D-421B-ADA0-E2E6BFA8B010.jpeg
 
I've never had Jever in a can - cannot even recall ever seeing a can of it, come to think of it. For me, the lightstruck flavour is so deeply tied with the taste of Jever that I'd be rather curious what a non -skunked Jever tastes like.
It's pretty common in a can in Germany. Much better than the bottled version, which is actually true for most German beers, even the ones that come in brown bottles. Somehow us Germans look down on beer from cans as inferior to bottled beer. We are quite stupid sometimes.
 
It's pretty common in a can in Germany. Much better than the bottled version, which is actually true for most German beers, even the ones that come in brown bottles. Somehow us Germans look down on beer from cans as inferior to bottled beer. We are quite stupid sometimes.
I prefer the canned version of most German beers here in SoCal. Even the brown glass can be lightstruck by the time it gets here. The European glass seems lighter brown, with maybe the exception of Weihenstephaner and Ayinger which use darker glass. I use their glass when I bottle. Here’s my refrigerator…
0CB479EC-874A-400F-BB3C-B929EAEF004E.jpeg
 
I prefer the canned version of most German beers here in SoCal. Even the brown glass can be lightstruck by the time it gets here. The European glass seems lighter brown, with maybe the exception of Weihenstephaner and Ayinger which use darker glass. I use their glass when I bottle. Here’s my refrigerator…
View attachment 785985
Uhhhhh that looks mighty yummy!
 
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