gas solenoid valve questions

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Nightbrew

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Posted this in morebeer as well to get as much info as possible, thanks

Sorry guys been asking alot of questions lately! Ok, I am building a brutus type system and have purchased one each of the asco 8210g15 and a g37. The g37 is what lonnie used for the brutus. I am now realizing the min pressure for these is 5psi to operate and I will be using low pressure propane to fire two blichmann burners. Lonnie shows to be using a low pressure regulator,but wouldnt that pressure be too low to operate the valves? So what I am missing here? Also some quick searches showed the stc 2w160 valves also being used in these systems for much less money, and they show vacuum to 150psi. Does vacuum mean 0psi or something else? Hope all this makes some sense, please let me know what i am up against here, thanks in advance. I wouldnt bother me at all to go ahead and order the stc valves if I need to, so I get this thing put together.Nightbrew
 
The STC 2W160 valves work well with both low and high pressure applications and have been used by others here. A safer alternative for low pressure is the honewell VR8200 standing pilot gas valve and pilot burner, about $80 for all the parts needed per burner.
 
Thanks, I have to nitride element electric pilots that I was going to mount to burners. Would this and the stc valve not be a safe solution?
 
The nitride ignitors will light the burner, but not using the ignition module to control ignition and check for flame is just rolling the dice, you might lick out and nothing happens, or get blown up if it goes wrong. Nitride ignitors are meant for steady flame size, protected draft free applications in heating and appliances, not open brewing systems where ignition would be chancy with adjustable burner flame levels and propane tanks going empty.
I have seen a number of darwin award applications of these on brew systems and wonder how lucky those folks will be when a boil over kills an ignitor, or the burner is turned down and the valve opens without ignition happening and no safety shutdown happens.
As much trouble as they are to install, the pilot burners with thermocouples or flame rods are the most reliable method of insuring that there is a flame present to light the burner when gas is present.
 
Can I run one of these honeywell valves off my love temp controllers? Also none of the honeywells show 110-120vac,just 24vac, does this mean I have to buy some sort of transformer? Thanks kladue, ive noticed your expertise on this subject from other threads
 
Also, does a honeywell 8200 come with a pilot burner and everything I will need or will I need to buy some other parts?
 
Valve
sv9501m2528-5.jpg


and igniter/pilot
q3450c1185-2.jpg


Transformer
at140b1206-4.jpg


This is expensive but safe and reliable. Very easy to install and use. For us, it's a liability issue. Dead brewers write poor reviews...
 
I'm not so sure cutting corners using solenoid valves etc. is that much less expensive. I know the setup we use if far less expensive than the ER
 
The parts needed are a
VR8200 gas valve http://www.pexsupply.com/Honeywell-VR8200A2132-1-2-24-Vac-Standing-Pilot-Gas-Valve-11588000-p
Q314 pilot burner http://www.pexsupply.com/Honeywell-Q314A4586-Honeywell-Q314A4586-Pilot-Burner-4113000-p
and a thermocouple http://www.pexsupply.com/Honeywell-Q390A1046-24-Thermocouple-1721000-p

To power the valves a 120-24VAC transfomer with 75VA rating for 2-3 valves http://www.pexsupply.com/Honeywell-AT175A1008-Foot-mounted-120-208-240-Vac-Transformer-w-9-in-Lead-Wires-75VA-11016000-p
A 40 VA will operate 1 valve all day, and 2 for short time, but heats up if running 2 for very long. You switch the 24VAC with the controllers and the transformer stays energized all the time. Here is an example diagram using Love TS controllers https://picasaweb.google.com/kevin.ladue/PanelWiringDiagram#5507979690350514498.
 
Am I thinking of this wrong or couldnt I just use the temp probe from my love controller into a thermowell that I already have? Thanks again guys
 
The controller probe is only used for sensing water temperature up to a bit over boiling water temperature, the thermocouple or flame sensor is meant to be exposed to the flame, 1,500+ degrees. The thermocouple powers an electromagnet inside the gas valve, flame and valve is held open, no flame , magnet drops valve closed to stop gas flow. The ignition assembly with the smart valve has a probe that touches the flame and conduct electricty, no flame , no power flow and valve elctronics shut the valve power off.
 
Ok, that makes sense,just a simple flame sensor more or less. Thanks again for the help, I think an order is going to be placed today.
 
If the transformer is in open then a 40VA would work as the heat can escape easily to surrounding air, if inside an enclosure then a 75VA would be a better choice as it would not be fully loaded with 2 valves at the same time and not get too hot.
 
I grabbed the 100va model from Ranco for 2 valves.

There is no overkill, only a larger safety margin.
 
Thanks, mine will be open to the air so cooling should not be an issue. More questions, I will need to mount some sort of valve to control the flame. What type of valve and where should it go, before or after the solenoid? Also I need to pick up some wire for everything on this project pumps,love controllers etc. what gauge am I looking for?
 
Flame control valve should be after the solenoid valve, as to the wire 18# for the 24 VAC side, 14# for the 120 VAC side which is sufficient when used with 15 amp GFI plug in or inline GFI extension. All the wire should be 300V rated as it will share the same box and probably mix together. If the flame is operated at one level then the gas valve internal regulator can be adjusted to give the flame size you need.
 
I will probably want to change it the flame somewhat frequently, should this be a ball or needle valve? Thanks for the info on the wire as well.
 
Trying to make sure Ive got all this right, is it best to use a needle valve or ball valve, or something else entirely? thanks again
 
Ok, I am building a brutus type system and have purchased one each of the asco 8210g15 and a g37. The g37 is what lonnie used for the brutus. I am now realizing the min pressure for these is 5psi to operate and I will be using low pressure propane to fire two blichmann burners.

Lonnie shows to be using a low pressure regulator,but wouldnt that pressure be too low to operate the valves? So what I am missing here?

The 8210G015 (8210G037 is the S.S. version) is a general service valve.
These are not natural gas/propane valves.

The better valve is the 8040G022, which is rated from 0-2 psi DIFFERENTIAL which lists for $135.00
Also the valve isn't offset at that 45* angle, which looks funny.

Of course if you like the 8210 series, go with it, but pick one of the valves approved for gas service. Like the 8210G075
 
You also need the gas line for the pilot. Keep in mind the flame sensor just lets the GV know the pilot is on, it dose not know the burner is on! you could do an inline Baso switch to break power to the GV for the burner.
 
The parts needed are a
VR8200 gas valve http://www.pexsupply.com/Honeywell-VR8200A2132-1-2-24-Vac-Standing-Pilot-Gas-Valve-11588000-p
Q314 pilot burner http://www.pexsupply.com/Honeywell-Q314A4586-Honeywell-Q314A4586-Pilot-Burner-4113000-p
and a thermocouple http://www.pexsupply.com/Honeywell-Q390A1046-24-Thermocouple-1721000-p

To power the valves a 120-24VAC transfomer with 75VA rating for 2-3 valves http://www.pexsupply.com/Honeywell-AT175A1008-Foot-mounted-120-208-240-Vac-Transformer-w-9-in-Lead-Wires-75VA-11016000-p
A 40 VA will operate 1 valve all day, and 2 for short time, but heats up if running 2 for very long. You switch the 24VAC with the controllers and the transformer stays energized all the time. Here is an example diagram using Love TS controllers https://picasaweb.google.com/kevin.ladue/PanelWiringDiagram#5507979690350514498.


You are soooo past this but I will never be anywhere near where you are now. Maybe with help I can reach your distant past. So:

I built a PID controller box using an RTD based on the ElectricBrewery guys but adapted to a poor man's budget. Goal was to work with heated probe and a HERMS set-up but 110v really didn't work. Now I am kicked-out of the kitchen for a year and considering a Blichman Propane burner on the ground coupled with your items above and my PID box - substituting what what was the plug into the box for the heat probe, for wires now going to the automated solenoid, etc. Will this work? I'm not sure how to compare your diagram for a LOVE controller with my PID box which simply switches on the power for the heater as the controller dictates. Here are some shots of the PID and controller box I built:
PID2.jpg


Plug outlet to Heat Probe operated by PID and RTD in mash:
PID1.jpg


Here is pic of Blichmann - they provide a regulator at the gas end and the thermocouple etc. at the burner end:

regulator.jpg


On their automated version they've added some items (PID controlled solenoid, igniter switch etc. but they are NOT reachable for info on these for purchase. Here are some pics of these parts.

regulators2.jpg


I'm not sure what they have there but I assume your parts list can be plugged-in and accomplish essentially the same thing?

Am I on the right track?

MAJOR THANKS. I teach at-risk kids in High School part time and realize how simple many of their questions seem. I KNOW this is true for you with me. Humble thanks Kladue and good luck with phase 3. Will never understand that.

You can email directly at [email protected] I've been out of the loop for a year and couldn't figure out how to private message you.
 
Hey all! I have all the parts listed by Kladue in his post on page 1. Quick clarification question: do I need to buy/do anything special to hook up both valves to the same transformer? Or do I just crimp and connect the valve wires together and hook em both up? Thanks for your help!
 
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