Funny Taste (help a fellow brewer out)

[davidamerica]

A post from my blog...please someone enlighten me:

7-7-10

Most of us have had some sort of game meat in our lifetime. It doesn’t matter if it’s venison or rabbit but it all seems to have that particular flavor that makes everyone say,” Tastes a little gamey.” Brewing beer so far for me has been a lot of fun and it really becomes gratifying when you brew something that actually tastes good. Since January of this year, I have brewed 5 batches of beer and although each of them were fairly good I must say,” Tastes a little gamey.”

I am not saying that my beer tastes like meat but why does my beer have that certain after taste. I am sure many home brewers know what I am talking about....then again, maybe you dont'. The point is, my beer is not bad but that funny taste, it’s there and it would be wonderful if I could somehow remove that small detail to all of my beers. I wonder what could be causing this?

Dave

 

[Walker]

can you describe the 'funny taste' at all?

 

[davidamerica]

Well the funny taste I speak of is hard to explain but whatever it is it does not change from one beer type to another, yet I don't taste it in beers like Sam Adams etc. I am wondering if it is just because there are no preservatives. The thing is, I can tell I didn't buy the beer in the store just from that taste alone it has a distinct after taste that says screams....home brew. I know it doesn't help much but the taste is hard to explain. If nobody out there is experiencing the same thing, it must be a user error in the way I brew. I sanatize like crazy, I follow the directions exactly as they are to be followed, I take notes (extensive notes) so I can properly document the process. I think I go overboard sometimes so not sure what the problem is. I might give out a sample to one of the guys at the home brew store here and see what he says.

 

[Bensiff]

Game animal flavor is a new one to me. Check out the link below to some common off flavors, none describe meat, but maybe one will catch your attention.

http://www.howtobrew.com/section4/chapter21-2.html

 

[Dwain]

A couple of comments based on my experience:
If you're bottling, make sure when you pour, you do not get any of the sediment in your glass. The lighter the beer, the easier it is to pick up any "off" taste. Also, make sure your fermentation temperatures are within range. For years, I fermented in a garage. during the summer, the temps would get well into the 90's. It made for some "manly" brews, but we drank them anyway. Finally, Brew a clone from one of the proven recipes on here. Get the "real" one and do a side by side test. Good luck and keep us posted. - Dwain

 

[davidamerica]

Thanks guys.

Also I want to add the Game Taste I speak of doesn't actually mean it tastes like meat but what it means is the same reaction you would get when eating store brought meat vs game. You can tell they are both meats but blindfolded, you can pick out the game meat from venison based on that certain taste that you cannot describe.

As far as my home brew goes, I am getting a taste from my beers that I cannot describe either.

I normally keep my fermenter in a bucket with water, and a towl around it and keep the towell wet to act like a swamp cooler or ac. It stays at about 70deg or so, so I am guessing it is not the temperature problem but I will check out my new batch when I bottle it this weekend.

 

[Bensiff]

Oh, homebrew flavor...easy fix, control your temps and clear your beer. Let the beer ferment out and give it another week or two on the yeast to let the yeast clear out off flavors, then cold crash or give enough time to let suspended particles to settle out. When you bottle or keg it is good to lager for a month to let the beer finish off. When you get this down you can pour a beer for friends and they won't know that they are not drinking a commercial micro and hopefully will think it better than most.

 

[HatchetJack]

If you are in Arizona and only using a wet towel, it's probably getting too
hot. The best improvements I made on my brewing was moving to full boils
and submerging the fermenter in a cooler with water and using frozen 12 oz
water bottles to keep it at about 68 degrees. I get no off flavors or twang
anymore.

 

[Walker]

I normally keep my fermenter in a bucket with water, and a towl around it and keep the towell wet to act like a swamp cooler or ac. It stays at about 70deg or so, so I am guessing it is not the temperature problem but I will check out my new batch when I bottle it this weekend.

What is this 70*F reading based off of? The temp of the water or the temp of the beer inside the fermenter?

I put my fermenters in a temp controlled fridge. I have the fridge set at about 64*F. Beers that are actively fermenting will be close to 70*F in that fridge.

So, if your water is 70*F, then the beer in the fermenter is probably MUCH warmer.

 

[FromZwolle]

are you an extract only brewer? and do you use the same yeast with every batch?

 

[TipsyDragon]

this is just a guess. are these extract brews? if so that could be what your talking about. beers like Sam Adams are of course all grain brews. also temp control can help allot as well as giving the yeast enough time to clean up after themselves. i don't know what your procedure is but leave the beer in the primary for at least 3 weeks if not longer then bottle and let it sit another 3 weeks if not longer. the beer will improve with time.

 

[HatchetJack]

Ok I misread and you do have it submerged. It may be your water, what kind of
fermenter do you use?

 

[monty3777]

I think the place to start in any situation where there are off flavors is the yeast and fermentation temps. Based on your description I can't for the life of me get specific. But most times when my flavors are "good enough - but off slightly" it is usually when I under pitched yeast or didn't use a starter. But even if that is done correctly those yeast have to have a stable environment in order to do their jobs correctly. In your next brew spend most of your effort attending to your yeast and fermentation and I bet the off-flavor you are talking about will disappear. Also, you may want to try a different kit provider. I did notice a significant difference in the kits my LHBS sold and the ones I got - and continue to get - from Midwest.

 

[monty3777]

this is just a guess. are these extract brews? if so that could be what your talking about. beers like Sam Adams are of course all grain brews. also temp control can help allot as well as giving the yeast enough time to clean up after themselves. i don't know what your procedure is but leave the beer in the primary for at least 3 weeks if not longer then bottle and let it sit another 3 weeks if not longer. the beer will improve with time.

I hear you and agree - but only if the yeast was pitched correctly and the fermentation temps are stable. Letting a beer sit for three weeks to a month will never clear up the flavors caused by bad fermentation practices. However, good yeast management will still produce good beer even if the beer is racked to bottles or kegs as soon as fermentaton is complete. Just my $0.02:fro:

 

[davidamerica]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

are you an extract only brewer? and do you use the same yeast with every batch?

Since I am new to brewing I assume when you say extract only you mean LME and DME instead of grain correct. If so I brew kits right now which have LME and DME in it, however, I use Grains in addition to the brew.

This last time, I used a new type of yeast Safale 04 I think it was wheras before, the kits came with Nottingham.

 

[wyzazz]

We need info on your process, from start to finish, be very detailed. Are you doing partial or full boils, how "exactly" does your brew day go, how long do you ferment, what's your fermentation process, what kind of water do you use and is it "city" water?

The first thing I see is that you're fermenting at 70F, if that's ambient temp then your beer is getting way too warm during active fermentation & that could very well be the off flavor you're getting in your beer.

 

[davidamerica]

I sanitized all equipment before I began. NOTE: BOTTLED WATER was used

Brewing

1 16:09 I turned the stove on with 2 ½ gal of water
2 16:11 Poured grains into grain bag and tied a knot
3 16:27 Water temperature reached 160F, I placed the grain bag into the water and steeped the grain bag for 20 minutes:
NOTE: I kept the temperature at 160F which is LO on the oven dial.
4 16:47 Removed grain bag and turned up heat to get wort to gentle boil
5 16:57 Water was boiling, added 3.3lbs of LME (boiled for 40 minutes)
6 16:58 Added bittering hops and continued boil on 6 on the oven dial.

(Boiled contents for 40 minutes)

7 17:38 Added 1lb DME, 8oz Corn Sugar, 8oz Rice Syrup Solids. Wort boiled for 5 minutes
8 17:43 Added 1 package of aroma hops and stirred well. Wort boiled for a final 10 minutes.

Brew Terminated 17:53

9 17:54 Placed hot wort into sink of ice water. Wort temperature was 120 deg F. Crash cooled the wort to about 89 degrees. Added remaining water to fermenter up to 5 gal. Temp 70 degrees
10 18:35 pitched yeast


11 23:30 Noticed fermentation for the first time

7-4-10

12 07:00 Fermentation Co2 every second
13 12:20 Fermentation Co2 every ½ second
14 14:30 Fermentation Co2 every .3 seconds


7-5-10

15 09:00 Fermentation Co2 every 1 ½ seconds
16 13:00 Fermentation Co2 every 1 ½ seconds
17 22:00 Fermentation Co2 every 3 seconds

7-6-10

18 07:30 Fermentation Co2 every 7 seconds

 

[JuanMoore]

From the info so far, my guess would be a combination of high fermentation temps, too much simple sugar, and a short fermentation period. Nottingham is notorious for producing undesireable off flavors when fermented at warmer temperatures, and really should be kept under 65F for a clean flavor profile. As mentioned, fermentation produces heat, so the beer is often several degrees warmer than the ambient temp or temp of the water bath. The rather large percentage of simple sugars (~20%) in the recipe you posted could also have something to do with it. You still haven't said how long you're fermenting your beers for. If you're bottling too soon the yeast may not have had a chance to clean up after themselves. If you're drinking it sooner than 6-8 weeks from brew day then the beer might still be "green".

 

[wyzazz]

How long did you leave it in the primary fermenter?

From your post I see you added the LME after the wort was boiling, did you take the pot off the burner to add the LME? How about with the DME, Sugar, Syrup Solids? If not you probably scorched your wort and may be tasting that burnt toffee kind of taste.

You may also want to get your wort around 60/65F before pitching yeast. I also see that you have a decent amount of simple sugar in your recipe, I'd leave that stuff out of your beer, it can lend an Acetylaldehyde or "green/cidery" flavor to your beer that takes a bit of time to mellow out.

 

[WildGingerBrewing]

I can relate to what the OP is saying. I notice that all of my extract brews have a certain "taste". Some of the beers have been really good but you can defintely tell they weren't commercially brewed. I have even had at least one comment on a beer made to this affect, "it's good, but it tastes like homebrew" I have always heard that there is an "extract twang" in extract brews that doesn't exist when brewing AG. I just brewed my first AG 3 weeks ago, so we'll see if that "taste" goes away. So it may just be the "extract twang" that you're tasting.

 

[mlyday]

Was the bottled water distilled or spring water? The extracts allready contain the minerals and such, so you should be using distilled water with extracts.

 

[Walker]

you don't have to use distilled water with extract, but you can use it.

I'm personally looking at the combined pound of corn sugar and rice syrup solids in the recipe.

Do all of your beers use those items, david?

 

[wyzazz]

you don't have to use distilled water with extract, but you can use it.

+1, when I make extract brews I used my filtered tap water.

 

[davidamerica]

I think my problem is, is I usually bottle the beer after 1 week and I have used nothing but nottingham yeast. This time around I used Safale 04 as my yeast. I suppose I should wait another week before bottleing.

Also I usually drink the beer at 4 weeks. I usually can't wait!

 

[davidamerica]

you don't have to use distilled water with extract, but you can use it.

I'm personally looking at the combined pound of corn sugar and rice syrup solids in the recipe.

Do all of your beers use those items, david?

No, I only use corn syrup and all of those ingredients because it came with the kit. Water in Arizona is terrible you have to use bottled water.

 

[davidamerica]

Was the bottled water distilled or spring water? The extracts allready contain the minerals and such, so you should be using distilled water with extracts.

I use spring water

 

[Walker]

Ok. I think you just need to wait longer!

Go at least 3 weeks in the fermenter before you bottle and I think you will see a HUGE difference.

 

[JuanMoore]

+1 to waiting at least 3 weeks before bottling, your patience will be well rewarded. Green beer is not very tasty. And also quit using Notty unless you can get the temp down a little further. Put most of the beers you still have in a dark place for a month, and I think you might be pleasantly surprised when you try them again.

 

[wyzazz]

I think my problem is, is I usually bottle the beer after 1 week and I have used nothing but nottingham yeast. This time around I used Safale 04 as my yeast. I suppose I should wait another week before bottleing.

Also I usually drink the beer at 4 weeks. I usually can't wait!

Tsk, Tsk, now I know what you're tasting. It's acetaldehyde, a common off flavor in young (green) beer. In short, if you are more patient, give your beer at least 3 weeks in the primary, and another 3 weeks in the bottle, your beer will "outgrow" this "homebrew" taste and you'll be much happier with the fruits of your labor!!!! :rockin:

Now, go out and get some more primary fermenters and some more ingredients so you can get a pipeline going! That's the only thing that will save you from drinking green beer!