Full 2.5lb CO2 tank kicked during force carb - leak?

[No_Nrg]

This was my first attempt force-carbing in a keg (1.75g Cannonball/Governor regulator).

I set up the system per the instructions and set system to 10psi at 40 degrees last night. I checked on it this morning and the CO2 tank is empty.

Would a leak be the only possible cause of this? This size tank should carb and serve multiple kegs this size correct?

Would there be any harm to the beer if I left it sealed in the keg and chilled until I could get the CO2 tank filled to complete the carbing process?

 

[Hello]

Yes, you absolutely have leak somewhere. You should be fine to keep the beer sealed and get gas tomorrow. I had a leak when I first got my equipment. I checked everything, so I thought. My leak was in a hose attached to my manifold. I checked everywhere, went through two 5 pound tanks before I realized I should check the hoses on the manifold. The place I bought from connected those for me, and I never thought to check them. I don't blame them, shipping can jar things. Either way, you have a leak. Force carbing at 10 PSI won't use that much gas in one night.

 

[No_Nrg]

Yes, you absolutely have leak somewhere. You should be fine to keep the beer sealed and get gas tomorrow. I had a leak when I first got my equipment. I checked everything, so I thought. My leak was in a hose attached to my manifold. I checked everywhere, went through two 5 pound tanks before I realized I should check the hoses on the manifold. The place I bought from connected those for me, and I never thought to check them. I don't blame them, shipping can jar things. Either way, you have a leak. Force carbing at 10 PSI won't use that much gas in one night.

Guess that's what I get for being lazy and not checking for leaks. I just assumed I was good to go. I'll have to do a leak test with star-san once I have more gas.

Are common areas for leaks at the hose clamps and the keg lid?

 

[Hello]

Guess that's what I get for being lazy and not checking for leaks. I just assumed I was good to go. I'll have to do a leak test with star-san once I have more gas.

Are common areas for leaks at the hose clamps and the keg lid?

Honestly, I don't think it's totally common for the hose to the manifold to be leaky, but it should be checked. The lid is the first place, the poppit on the liquid side should be checked too. I don't connect my liquid while carbing because I turn the gas up to 30 PSI for a day. If that poppit is off a bit, it will leak liquid and gas, of course. I would turn the PSI up to 30 when you check for leaks. One, you can actually often hear the gas if it's leaking from the lid, and two, it's easier to find a leak in general. At least that has been my experience.

 

[No_Nrg]

Honestly, I don't think it's totally common for the hose to the manifold to be leaky, but it should be checked. The lid is the first place, the poppit on the liquid side should be checked too. I don't connect my liquid while carbing because I turn the gas up to 30 PSI for a day. If that poppit is off a bit, it will leak liquid and gas, of course. I would turn the PSI up to 30 when you check for leaks. One, you can actually often hear the gas if it's leaking from the lid, and two, it's easier to find a leak in general. At least that has been my experience.

I didn't have my liquid out connected at the time. I made sure to tighten regulator nuts with a wrench, those should be good to go. I'm guessing it was the lid not seating correctly or possibly the gas in quick disconnect.

I'll just check everything to be sure. Not going to waste another $20 of CO2 (thought that was expensive for a 2.5lb tank) on a leak.

Thanks for the help.

 

[Hello]

$20? Yikes. I pay $13 for 5 pounds.

 

[Baja_Brewer]

Woof, I paid $34 for 20lbs.

 

[No_Nrg]

Sounds like I'm getting ripped off at $20 for 2.5lbs......:smack:

 

[rnm410]

After you tightened everything (again), if star-san/soap method yields nothing, i.e. a micro leak, then:

Identify what part of the system is leaking.

1. Close valve leaving reg. Open tank valve to pressure system, close tank valve. Check non regulated pressure gauge after hours for dropped pressure. If pressure drops, you are leaking upstream of isolation valve to hoses.
2. Open valve leaving reg. Open tank valve to pressure system, close tank valve... Repeat as above. This checks for leaks in the hoses.
3. Check keg for leak.

 

[No_Nrg]

I re-seated the keg lid and did a star-san check at all possible connections, got no signs of leak.

I've had it hooked up at 10 psi for 2 days now and holding steady, poured a sample yesterday and nicely carbed.

I checked the o-ring between the tank and regulator, made sure I flipped it around the right way. May also have been the culprit.

Either way, I'm good to go and enjoying fresh, carbed beer

 

[brewcat]

Sounds like I'm getting ripped off at $20 for 2.5lbs......:smack:

Usually places have kind of a set rate no matter what size of tank. That's why a lot of us have 20# tanks. You'll pay around the same price but get more CO2.

 

[No_Nrg]

Usually places have kind of a set rate no matter what size of tank. That's why a lot of us have 20# tanks. You'll pay around the same price but get more CO2.

That's what the lady told me when I asked. They have a flat rate of $20 up to 5lbs.

Due to the size of the fridge I use (2.3cu ft Danby) I could only fit a 2.5lb tank in there, unless I come up with a way to mount it outside. May do in the future to save money.

 

[FloppyKnockers]

Either a leak or you just carbed it to about 80,000 volumes.

 

[No_Nrg]

Either a leak or you just carbed it to about 80,000 volumes.

ha, never mind bottle bombs.

If that happened I'd have a keg bomb on my hands

 

[brewcat]

That's what the lady told me when I asked. They have a flat rate of $20 up to 5lbs.

Due to the size of the fridge I use (2.3cu ft Danby) I could only fit a 2.5lb tank in there, unless I come up with a way to mount it outside. May do in the future to save money.

I ran gas hoses through the side of my fridge. Others have just run hoses through the door. Freon lines may be a concern for side installation.

For side installation, I cut a small hole on the inside plastic liner. Then poked around to make sure there weren't any lines connected to the outside wall. Lines tend to be spot welded to the metal. You'll get a general idea of where they are if one spot is warmer to touch.

 

[No_Nrg]

So it happened again, my CO2 tank for some reason kicked again. It lasted around 2 days at 10 PSI. After that I backed it off to 5 PSI and had served maybe 3 pints over the course of 2 more days via a picnic tap.

I reseated the keg lid and checked every connection for leaks, came up with nothing.

I'm right in assuming 2.5lb of CO2 should carb and serve multiple 1.75g kegs correct?

Could leaving the picnic tab connected over a couple days cause a continuous loss of pressure from my keg/tank?

I have the beer carbed, chilled and sealed at least until I get another refill. Going to leave tank shut unless I'm serving from now on to avoid this until I can pinpoint the issue.

 

[brewprint]

So it happened again, my CO2 tank for some reason kicked again. It lasted around 2 days at 10 PSI. After that I backed it off to 5 PSI and had served maybe 3 pints over the course of 2 more days via a picnic tap.

I reseated the keg lid and checked every connection for leaks, came up with nothing.

I'm right in assuming 2.5lb of CO2 should carb and serve multiple 1.75g kegs correct?

Could leaving the picnic tab connected over a couple days cause a continuous loss of pressure from my keg/tank?

I have the beer carbed, chilled and sealed at least until I get another refill. Going to leave tank shut unless I'm serving from now on to avoid this until I can pinpoint the issue.

Where did you get this tank? It could be the fitting that actually fits into the tank where the valve is. The way that you check is by dipping the tank itself into the sink or tub.

 

[rgreenberg2000]

Sounds like I'm getting ripped off at $20 for 2.5lbs......:smack:

Since I'm also in the Bay Area, thought I'd pipe in......I just paid $30 for 5 lbs yesterday. So, yeah, $20 for half that sounds high, but based on the prices quoted above, the cost for CO2 in RI and NC seems to be MUCH cheaper.

I'm in Redwood City, so my local welding supply isn't likely to be convenient for you in SJ. In case you happen to work near here, I swap my tanks at County Specialty Gases which is close to Woodside/101.

Rich

 

[No_Nrg]

Where did you get this tank? It could be the fitting that actually fits into the tank where the valve is. The way that you check is by dipping the tank itself into the sink or tub.

I got this tank off Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0088PFM8O/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

 

[CamG]

On the connection from the output of my regulator there is a small plastic bushing.
Maybe it's missing on yours

Here is a link that shows you what it looks like.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Washers-NYL...cd80d4&pid=100011&rk=6&rkt=10&sd=380307733236

Hope you find the problem.

Cam

 

[IslandLizard]

Sorry to hear you're still having leaking problems.
You need to systematically go through each piece and ensure they don't leak.

Good pointers were already given, check them again.

Have you checked your disconnects? Are they assembled correctly and have the "flat" o-ring under little "screwdriver" lid? Then there's the o-ring on the (gas) post. And o-rings under the diptube flares, as well as the posts themselves. A gauged or cracked post can leak.

 

[Newsman]

Also, I've read that you need to make sure you have the valve on your tank wide open, as CO2 can leak around the valvestem, apparently.

 

[D-Train]

Also, I've read that you need to make sure you have the valve on your tank wide open, as CO2 can leak around the valvestem, apparently.

I think I lost a tank recently because of this.

 

[No_Nrg]

Also, I've read that you need to make sure you have the valve on your tank wide open, as CO2 can leak around the valvestem, apparently.

Hmm, the instructions with the keg said to only open the CO2 tank halfway, I'll keep this in mind.

 

[No_Nrg]

On the connection from the output of my regulator there is a small plastic bushing.
Maybe it's missing on yours

Here is a link that shows you what it looks like.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Washers-NYL...cd80d4&pid=100011&rk=6&rkt=10&sd=380307733236

Hope you find the problem.

Cam

I have the washer between the tank and regulator. Made sure it was flipped so that it slots onto the regulator side.

Edit: Found out I was missing the bushing between the gas hose and regulator

 

[No_Nrg]

Going to isolate each part of the system and see where the pressure loss is coming from and go from there.

Thanks for all the help fellas.

 

[No_Nrg]

There was no bushing between the regulator output and the gas hose, could that have been the culprit? Do I need one of these bushings ain between the quick disconnects as well?

 

[agrazela]

There was no bushing between the regulator output and the gas hose, could that have been the culprit? Do I need one of these bushings ain between the quick disconnects as well?

I assume your regulator output is a metal (brass?) female flare and the gas hose is on a barb on a metal flare swivel nut? If so, then yes that metal-to-metal contact needs one of those plastic flare washer / bushing things. A good likelihood this is a leak point.

The end of your QD is probably plastic (after the metal threading) and does not need one.

 

[No_Nrg]

Well, that was a $40 learning experience :smack:

Put the bushing in and hoping for the best. thanks again guys

 

[IslandLizard]

Well, that was a $40 learning experience :smack:

Put the bushing in and hoping for the best. thanks again guys

Damn, that was a pricey lesson! Especially knowing that liquid CO2 really costs less than a $1 per pound (more like a quarter).

With those small tanks, you can't afford much leakage before it goes empty. Keep an eye on any possible leaks.

One trick is to disconnect the QDs, pressurize the system to 20-30psi, close the tank valve, and let it sit. The pressure should remain the same over 24 hours.

Kegs can be a bit harder to check, as CO2 is absorbed by the beer, but that takes time, so something will give away when there's a leak.

Those little white gaskets/washers are nick named "fish eyes." Always check for their presence! And tighten the coupler with a wrench!

I lost half a 20# tank of CO2 when I forgot to tighten one of the MFL couplers to the manifold with a wrench. The top of the tank started to frost over after a few hours...

 

[No_Nrg]

Damn, that was a pricey lesson! Especially knowing that liquid CO2 really costs less than a $1 per pound (more like a quarter).

One trick is to disconnect the QDs, pressurize the system to 20-30psi, close the tank valve, and let it sit. The pressure should remain the same over 24 hours.

Kegs can be a bit harder to check, as CO2 is absorbed by the beer, but that takes time, so something will give away when there's a leak.

Those little white gaskets/washers are nick named "fish eyes." Always check for their presence! And tighten the coupler with a wrench!

Yeah the shop I go to has a flat rate for up to 5lbs, lame but whatever.

I'm fairly confident the keg is sealed, I pulled the pressure release a tiny bit yesterday and it still had pressure even after sitting off gas for 3 days. I have a feeling the missing washer was the culprit.

Going to do the check you mentioned and see if the problem is fixed.

 

[IslandLizard]

If you do a lot of kegging, like "100% liquid purging," routine head space purging, carbonating, and serving, 2.5# is kinda small. I got two 20# here, so there is always gas and I use it for what it's worth. A fill runs me $28. If I do an exchange, a bit less, but I'd lose my nice clean shiny tank. Plus I want to know where my tank has been...

There are ways to hook up a tank outside the kegerator, but you do have to drill a small hole in the right spot.

Now for portability that 2.5# is great to take to events!

My LHBS charges $3 a pound for fills, and I don't think they have a minimum. They all have different price structures.