Frustration...Santitation?

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bobcatbrewer

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Hey guys I have posted on this before but I am beyond frustrated right now.

I have brewed a few batches now and all with the exception of one have had a unpleasant taste to them that really covers up the true flavors of the beer. I'm thinking that it is medicinal (The taste lingers in the front of my mouth and the back of my throat).

In the past I have used bleach with my equipment and have since discontinued the use of it, however, on this batch I purchased a new plastic fermenter and used star san to sanitize it. Sure enough, even though it is more subtle the problem is back and it is ruining my day.

My fermentation temps are around 70-75 and it has been in my primary for almost a week now. I'm wondering if I should dump it and move on but that would be the second one I have dumped this week, not sure if I could bring myself to do it.

Could it be my pot, wort chiller, or stainless strainer? Maybe my stainless stirring spoon?

I'm out of ideas and I really want to keep brewing but the frustration is killing me. Any help would be very appreciated, I'm open to any and all suggestions.

Also if you are in the Austin area let me know :mug:
 
What little aroma and flavor a batch of Star San mix provides would not be confused with chlorine [edit] or iodine or band-aid or whatever. Really, there's nearly no taste to it at all.

I would start with your water source and work your way from there...

Cheers!
 
I have used spring water from the store every time. I have friends that have used the same water and haven't had the same problems. Now the water that I used when cleaning/sanitizing is pretty hard water, could that be the issue?
 
I have used spring water from the store every time. I have friends that have used the same water and haven't had the same problems. Now the water that I used when cleaning/sanitizing is pretty hard water, could that be the issue?

Doesn't seem likely, there's so little compared to a batch of wort.

So, it's not the water. And anything stainless won't be the cause (we all use a crap ton of stainless gear here without issue).

You say you ferment up to 75°F. Is that the ambient temperature around the fermenter, or is that the actual wort temperature at the peak of fermentation? Is it's the former, the wort temperature could easily have run into the 80s, which is definitely risking significant ester formation with many ale yeasts, and even fusel alcohol production.

Could what you're tasting be a "hot alcohol" thing? Or some weird ester combination that isn't particularly pleasant?

Cheers!
 
I was talking with my friend about that not to long ago and I was thinking that could be the case. My house ranges anywhere from 70-75 so the temperature in the fermenter could be hotter than that.

What would that type of off flavor taste like? Would these flavors really start to form during the first week or fermentation? If so that could be my issue for sure.
 
Might be homing in on the problem. The yeast activity at the peak of primary fermentation can raise the wort temperature as much as 10°F over ambient, and for most yeasts running at 85°F is not going to be a good thing.

I expect the damage occurs pretty much from the point the yeast stop multiplying and go to work chomping the digestibles. That's why folks not striving for major ester production really try to avoid overly warm ferments, using anything from temperature controlled fermentation chambers all the way down to "swamp coolers", wet tee shirts and box fans.

I bet that if you remain vigilant with non-bleach-based sanitation regimen, stick with the spring water, and control the fermentation of your next batch so the actual wort temperature stays in the mid-60s°F, good things will result :)

Cheers!
 
I'm starting to feel a little better about it because I know that my fermentation temps get in the mid to high 80s. If this can produce off flavors then that is likely the culprit. What does this off flavor taste like and, after fermentation is complete is it ok to leave it at the room temp?
 
[...]What does this off flavor taste like and, after fermentation is complete is it ok to leave it at the room temp?

I believe the classic descriptions for fusel alcohols would include "solventy", "oily", and "hot". For esters, "banana", "cloves", and generally "spicey" might be the top three.

As for storage, the rate of pretty much every reaction on this planet will rise with temperature. Sometimes that's A Good Thing, sometimes not so much. I would try to avoid holding beer much above 70°F for any conditioning period...

Cheers!
 
Also, try not to judge a beer in the first week...it will change substantialy in the next 3-4 weeks. There are a ton if threads suggesting patience as a cure for some off flavors and I would agree. Most if us have brewed beers that were all but undrinkable initially, only to have them turn out just fine after a month or so.
 
I'm curious what beer you're making and what yeast you are using?

It is a strong ale and I used Wyeast Whitbread Ale 1099.

I'm going to give it some more time, should I transfer over to my secondary or keep it in the primary for another week or two?

Also I'm having very hard time discerning between whether it is a band-aid like taste or the solvent taste that people refer to with fusel alcohol.
 
Controlling fermentation temps was the single biggest advance in the quality of my homebrew. It lost that "homebrew" taste and began tasting like good beer. I could then concentrate on other smaller processes to hone the flavors I really want.
Pat
 
Controlling fermentation temps was the single biggest advance in the quality of my homebrew. It lost that "homebrew" taste and began tasting like good beer. I could then concentrate on other smaller processes to hone the flavors I really want.
Pat

What do you think is the more likely result of my off flavors, bad temperature control or bleach?
 
bobcatbrewer said:
It is a strong ale and I used Wyeast Whitbread Ale 1099.

I'm going to give it some more time, should I transfer over to my secondary or keep it in the primary for another week or two?

Also I'm having very hard time discerning between whether it is a band-aid like taste or the solvent taste that people refer to with fusel alcohol.

I'm curious what you're OG was and what is the gravity now?
 
bobcatbrewer said:
What do you think is the more likely result of my off flavors, bad temperature control or bleach?

Bad temp control, hands down. And that's not the easiest (read cleanest) yeast to start with. I wouldn't let the ambient temp get ANY higher than 66F with any English yeast. One option: don't do anything different with your process, but brew a Saison. I bet it'll taste great!
 
Bad temp control, hands down. And that's not the easiest (read cleanest) yeast to start with. I wouldn't let the ambient temp get ANY higher than 66F with any English yeast. One option: don't do anything different with your process, but brew a Saison. I bet it'll taste great!

I have a 5.0 cu ft chest freezer with a temperature control on it so I have the ability to use it to ferment at least two of my beers. I was going to use it for my kegerator but I guess I will get another one for that.

So every yeast is going to work a little different depending on the temp is what your saying bru?

This would also explain why every beer has been a little bit different in terms of the power of the off flavor.
 
Flocculation: Medium-High Attenuation: 68-72% Temperature Range: 64-75F, 18-24C Alcohol Tolerance: 10% ABV

these are the tolerance variables for that yeast.
 
bobcatbrewer said:
So every yeast is going to work a little different depending on the temp is what your saying bru?

This would also explain why every beer has been a little bit different in terms of the power of the off flavor.

Absolutely! You can take Saison yeast up to 80F usually.
 
bobcatbrewer said:
og: 1.063
fg: 1.014

i calculated an attenuation of 78%. which could be wrong because I'm learning. But the yeast lab states an attenuation of 72%. I don't know what this means, but wonder if something else is eating the sugars or perhaps the attenuation depends on the amount of yeast pitched? Sorry for budding in, just trying to learn.
 
W0rthog said:
i calculated an attenuation of 78%. which could be wrong because I'm learning. But the yeast lab states an attenuation of 72%. I don't know what this means, but wonder if something else is eating the sugars or perhaps the attenuation depends on the amount of yeast pitched? Sorry for budding in, just trying to learn.

I often attenuate more than the lab estimates.
 
Thanks for the responses guys, I can control my ferm temps so on the brew i'm going to do this week I will be sure to check the yeast type and make sure my temperature in my keezer cooresponds with that.

When is it alright to have a little higher temperatures though? 2 weeks in primary?

Also do you think this flavor will age out?
 
I taste fusel alcohol in my noise. It is like a bad liquor.

I had a similar problem and it was my water. I have since went to RO and add my own salts. Always taste your water before you use it.
 
cabron99 said:
Controlling fermentation temps was the single biggest advance in the quality of my homebrew. It lost that "homebrew" taste and began tasting like good beer. I could then concentrate on other smaller processes to hone the flavors I really want.
Pat

Couldn't agree more.
 
modenacart said:
I taste fusel alcohol in my noise. It is like a bad liquor.

I had a similar problem and it was my water. I have since went to RO and add my own salts. Always taste your water before you use it.

good point. there are no regulations around spring water. it could certainly contain bugs. That's why i like to use distilled water. consistent everytime.
 
bobcatbrewer said:
Thanks for the responses guys, I can control my ferm temps so on the brew i'm going to do this week I will be sure to check the yeast type and make sure my temperature in my keezer cooresponds with that.

When is it alright to have a little higher temperatures though? weeks in primary?

Also do you think this flavor will age out?

Raising the temp is fine once the vigorous fermentation is over, usually a week or so. If what you have is fusel alcohols you are tasting, then they will probably not age out. Most of the off flavors that can age out are actually "cleaned up" by the yeast, hence the reason for most people leaving their brews on the yeast cake (in primary) for 4 weeks or more. Fusel alcohols are pretty easy to pick out though...tastes kind of like some one dumped a bit of vodka in ur beer...hot, strong flavor.
 
bobcatbrewer said:
Thanks for the responses guys, I can control my ferm temps so on the brew i'm going to do this week I will be sure to check the yeast type and make sure my temperature in my keezer cooresponds with that.

When is it alright to have a little higher temperatures though? 2 weeks in primary?

Also do you think this flavor will age out?

Fermentation temperature is largely dependent on the east you use- Saison and some Belgian strains can be fermented relatively warm, 75° to 80° (beer temp, not ambient). For nearly all ale yeasts, from American to English, I like to pitch around 65F and after a couple days let it ramp up to about 70°. During the first 48 hours of fermentation, I will not let my beer get over 68°, regardless of style... unless it's a Saison or Belgian.

Chances are, those flavors will be with you till the end. Hey, there's always a next time ;)
 
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