Fresh pressed cider infection

[cernst151]

My wife and I recently pressed 22 gallons of cider for fermenting. We ground them, pressed them and heated them to 165 to pasteurize it before sealing it in fermenting buckets. We taped over the holes in the lids since any liquid in an airlock would just get sucked in as the cider cooled.

It took me about a week and a half to get around to pitching yeast since I had plans on what to do and no time. I kept it in my relatively cool basement and last night when I went down to pitch my yeast I opened the first bucket and saw the attached.

We had a large "mother" floating in the bucket. To me it looks a little like someone took a dump in our cider. Luckily that was the small 2 gallon bucket so that one we're going to just let it go and see what happens.

Of the other 3 buckets 1 had some foam on the surface and had gone cloudy, one had indications of the start of another mother and foam and had gone cloudy. The third was perfectly fine. I think the fine one was the first bucket we filled which was sealed more quickly than the others. The fine cider was at 1.05, the others were all at 1.04. All of them taste fine, though not what I was shooting for.

Last night I added campden to the cider. Something I should have done day one apparently. Each bucket got 1 crushed tablet per gallon plus 1 extra tablet. I swirled the buckets around to get it well mixed in.

My questions are...
1) Did I get to this too late? Is it already too infected?
2) What's the chance that I fully killed the infection?
3) How long do I have to wait to pitch new yeast?
4) At this point how can I tell if the infection is killed and should I give it a second round of campden tonight or will that cause additional off flavors?

 

[Yooper]

That looks like pectin globs, but it's hard to say.

The mistake wasn't in not using campden, since you pasteurized. But once you pasteurize, the clock starts ticking again since microbes will take hold. You want to add yeast immediately, as soon as the cider is under 80 degrees if you heated it.

Just like you wouldn't leave a glass of apple juice out on the counter for a week, you wouldn't do it with something you want to ferment- so it's entirely possible that it is infected, and too far gone to save.

Add yeast today, and hope for the best. That's all the advice I can give at this point.

 

[cernst151]

Add yeast today, and hope for the best. That's all the advice I can give at this point.

And 24 hours is enough time for the campden to settle out? Even with the extra I put in?

And yes, I know I should have jumped on it sooner. I thought that with the sealed buckets I had a little more leeway. My bad.

 

[Yooper]

And 24 hours is enough time for the campden to settle out? Even with the extra I put in?

And yes, I know I should have jumped on it sooner. I thought that with the sealed buckets I had a little more leeway. My bad.

Yes, the campden dissipates quickly, but it depends on the yeast. Wine yeast and brewer's yeast are tolerant of sulfites, so waiting 24 hours is standard but even that is not necessary.

 

[cernst151]

Yes, the campden dissipates quickly, but it depends on the yeast. Wine yeast and brewer's yeast are tolerant of sulfites, so waiting 24 hours is standard but even that is not necessary.

I'm actually using a sweet mead yeast. I'll pitch when I get home. Hopefully all is well. Thanks for the tips. I'm curious to see how the one we leave alone with the mother turns out.

 

[WVMJ]

All that time it took you guys to pasteurize this, you could have just added some sulfites and got your other stuff organized and ready to go. Looks like a big blob of pectin, its the right color. What kind of apples did you guys use, a lot of dessert apples? You never mentioned if it smelled or tasted bad, like vinegar or a little farty? You might just be ok, and then you put a hard to use yeast in there WVMJ

 

[SmokeyMcBong]

was it keeving? I don't know, just asking.

 

[Smitty49686]

QA


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[Renoun]

I'm actually using a sweet mead yeast.

Unless you are happy with past experiences using this yeast I suggest some diversity in yeast selection. Of all the ciders I did last year the ones I did with Wyeast #4184 were not very satisfactory and fermented to .997 or so. See if you like it in one bucket before committing your whole pressing to it.

 

[cernst151]

All that time it took you guys to pasteurize this, you could have just added some sulfites and got your other stuff organized and ready to go. Looks like a big blob of pectin, its the right color. What kind of apples did you guys use, a lot of dessert apples? You never mentioned if it smelled or tasted bad, like vinegar or a little farty? You might just be ok, and then you put a hard to use yeast in there WVMJ

To the extent I can I try to avoid adding extraneous chemicals. I was ok with the time involved in heat pasteurizing to avoid using campden. I know it's gone soon enough but given the choice I'd go with heat over chemicals. Of course, in this case, as Yooper mentioned, the biggest issue was with us leaving them to sit for a week and a half. Probably would have had the same problem with Campden in that case.

No idea what kind of apples. I got them off a coworkers tree. They were pretty soft and sweet.

It didn't smell or taste bad but there was a light hint of vinegar. I've done wild yeast fermentation before and wasn't crazy about it so I wanted to give my chosen yeast as much fermentation opportunity as I could.

 

[cernst151]

was it keeving? I don't know, just asking.

It did not appear to be but it's in a bucket so I couldn't see from the side.

 

[cernst151]

Unless you are happy with past experiences using this yeast I suggest some diversity in yeast selection. Of all the ciders I did last year the ones I did with Wyeast #4184 were not very satisfactory and fermented to .997 or so. See if you like it in one bucket before committing your whole pressing to it.

This is my first time trying this yeast. I've tried a number of others in the past. The English Cider yeast from White Labs was the best but this time we wanted to try something a hair sweeter. After a bit of research I settled on this one.

This cider has already waited too long as the wild yeast had taken over. I'll drink this stuff and if it's still not exactly where I want it, I'll press more apples next year.

 

[cernst151]

That looks like pectin globs, but it's hard to say.

The mistake wasn't in not using campden, since you pasteurized. But once you pasteurize, the clock starts ticking again since microbes will take hold. You want to add yeast immediately, as soon as the cider is under 80 degrees if you heated it.

Just like you wouldn't leave a glass of apple juice out on the counter for a week, you wouldn't do it with something you want to ferment- so it's entirely possible that it is infected, and too far gone to save.

Add yeast today, and hope for the best. That's all the advice I can give at this point.

Yeah, I've heard pectin from a few people, here and elsewhere. Would pectin form a solid mass that can be lifted out whole with a fork? This had very much the consistency of a kombucha mother, though it was much smaller. I suppose the confirmation will come in the final product and in seeing if it grows or stays the same size.

I added the yeast in 2 of the 3 buckets last night and within an hour the one was bubbling so fast it was making the starsan in the airlock foam out the top. The other is bubbling well this morning.

I set the third (the one that didn't seem to have any infection but I added campden anyway as a precaution) out on the patio where it's too cold to ferment anything and will be using that to make my first batch of Brandon O's graff.

 

[Bryceshu]

I know this is a super old thread but im hoping someone will see this... I sit recommended that after pressing cider you pasteurize or throw a camden tab in there before fermenting ? Iv got a bunch of apples im about to press, this is my first time making cider this way. Thanks for tips yall.

 

[Sequoiacider]

Lol. Way to resurrect a super dead thread, but definitely a valid question. In the future, you should just create a new thread with a link to the old thread you are referencing.

To answer your question though: You can go either way regarding pasteurizing/using campden prior to pitching yeast, or pitching yeast without pasteurization/campden. One question to ask is what conditions are the apples in? If your apples include groundfall or have lots of blemishes or are otherwise questionable then you will definitely want to pasteurize or add Campden. If your apples were all picked off the tree and are in good condition, then you can definitely go straight from the press to pitching yeast without pasteurization or campden.

 

[RPh_Guy]

Yeah there's no right or wrong way.

You can:
Not use sulfite, use a half dose, or use full dose, depending on how much wild yeast character you want.
The effectiveness of sulfite is based on pH.

You also have the option to let the wild yeast in the apples make the cider without adding any yeast. Just put the fresh juice in a carboy and keep around 50°F.

Pasteurization with heat isn't really a great option because it negatively impacts the flavor.

 

[Bryceshu]

Lol. Way to resurrect a super dead thread, but definitely a valid question. In the future, you should just create a new thread with a link to the old thread you are referencing.

To answer your question though: You can go either way regarding pasteurizing/using campden prior to pitching yeast, or pitching yeast without pasteurization/campden. One question to ask is what conditions are the apples in? If your apples include groundfall or have lots of blemishes or are otherwise questionable then you will definitely want to pasteurize or add Campden. If your apples were all picked off the tree and are in good condition, then you can definitely go straight from the press to pitching yeast without pasteurization or campden.

Mostly picked from the tree. i did snag a few ground falls. some of the apples have some blemishes. problem is i had to keep them in the basement for a week while i waited for my press to ship. The basement is pretty cool which is why i put them down there. and also made sure there was no direct sunlight hitting the apples.

Per haps i will separate the really good looking apples from the ones that look questionable and just pasteurize the juice made from the uglier apples.

I did want to try 1 gallon of cider fermented with the natural yeast. But again this is my first time ever presssing my own. usualy i get fresh pressed from the home brew store and they use campden tabs.

Iv read some articles where cider makers did a taste test between using a campden and heat pasteurizing and they said there was no noticable difference..

 

[Sequoiacider]

Actually, it it good to let apples sit for a week or two after picking before pressing. This is known as "sweating" the apples, and results in better yields. The time also allows the Apples to convert Starches into Sugars, increasing the Gravity of the juice a little. Just be sure they are in an open bin or bucket so they can get a little bit of airflow. If the air in the basement is stagnant then you may want to put a fan in for circulation, but don't point it directly at the apples.

Was the groundfall that you did pick up apples that you watched fall, or were they already on the ground? If you watched them fall and then grabbed them then I would count them as picked from tree, unless there is animal feces in the area. If they were already on the ground, then I would say they should definitely be pasteurized or campden used. Apples with minor bruises and blemishes I just cut the blemish out, and treat it like a good apple.

I pasteurize large amounts of juice on the stovetop during pressing season so I have juice to ferment throughout the year. I have not found the process to create any negative impact on the taste of the cider. I even did a "Wild Ferment Re-Creation", where I took Pasteurized Single Varietal juice and pitched it with yeast that I had harvested from when I previously did a Wild Fermentation with that same varietal. Blind taste testers where generally unable to tell the difference between the original actual Wild Fermentation and the Re-Creation using Pasteurized juice.