Fresh apple juice from local farm

[Redpappy]

This is my second batch of cider. First batch was from juice bought from the store, and carbinated.
This batch, I did 5 gal from apple juice from a local apple farm, they pressed and UV the juice. I used this yeast https://www.morebeer.com/products/safcider-dry-yeast-fermentis.html. I fermented in my basement which stays 62-65 F, and I fermented dry. I bottled it 11-19-2019, un carbonated, and in beer bottles. I decided to crack one open to see how it it taste. The cider is has a slight haze to it, very little alcohol taste, but I do not have any apple flavor, taste more like water.
My question, will I get some apple flavor with age? My original plan was to age it till the June or so. But got curious on how it is tasting.

 

[Chalkyt]

I will be interested to see what comments others make as I may well be in a similar situation this year.

Most people will be aware of the bushfire and drought situation here in Oz and for us in the Snowy Mountains the result is that most apple trees have thrown their apples due to the heat and difficulty of keeping water up to them. Batlow, our "local" cider making area was almost wiped out by fire a few weeks ago and I will be lucky to get 50 apples from eight trees, so "bought juice" may have to be the way to go.

I recently tried supermarket "natural/organic" juice with very bland results but fortunately now have found an orchard outside the bushfire areas that can supply juice by type. i.e. Pink Lady, Granny Smith, Fuji etc rather than blends... these are more like "drinking" juices than "cider juices" but at least I will know what I am working with.

The reason for waffling on about it is that your problem may be similar to my experience, in that the "drinking" juices usually end up with little flavour once fermented. They then need a fair bit of help with tannin, FAJC, etc. Also I have found that the type of yeast does have an effect. I have zeroed in on SO4 and WLP775 adter trying EC1118, SafeCider, and others. Adding crab apples does wonders as does a bit of age.

Did you take OG and FG readings to see how much alcohol was generated?

Also, I think it was Andrew Lea (Craft Cider Making) who pointed out that wine doesn't taste like grapes and cider doesn't taste like apples. So, although cider can have some nice appley notes, it isn't apple juice.

 

[Redpappy]

@Chalkyt as far as alcohol volume, I have it written on bottles as 7%..
now I can’t find my notes on my first 2 batches (after going through some of my older post, I realized I have made 2 other 1 gal batches of cider, not just 1). I did save 1 bottle of cider from my last batch that I did do a side by side. Difference between the two -
1 was store bought and 1 was fresh,
2. Batch 1 was carbinated, batch 2 was not.
3 batch 1 was 1 gal, batch 2 was 5 gal. Batch 1 was with a wine yeast (can’t remember which one...oops) batch 2 was with safe cider.
4. Batch 1 was aged 6 months I beleive, batch 2 was aged 2 months (in beer bottles)
5. Storage has been in my basement for both, so temps are pretty close to one another, ie 63-66F
6. Store bought cider was clearer, fresh was a little hazy. ( but noticed that when I was dumping the juice in the cider that the fresh was a lot clouder than the store bought, so i was expecting that.)

 

[Chalkyt]

Around 7% ABV sounds about right for something fermented down to 1.000 or just a bit above since typical apple juice is OG is 1.055 or so.

The other "trick" that you might try is dry hopping if you need to improve a bland batch. I did this with a batch that needed "something" and it worked quite well. I added 3g/litre of hop pellets suspended in a muslin bag in the carboy for about five days (add marbles to the bag to stop it floating) just before bottling.

I jiggled it a bit every day so taste, taste, taste because the hop flavour infuses quite quickly. I used Cascade Hops but I believe Citra and Galaxy also work quite well. I may use this as my falback this year if the bought juice doesn't work the way I hope.

When the taste was right I bottle carbonated as per normal.

 

[user 272141]

I'm working entirely with store-bought juice. I live in an apple-rich area, but haven't yet had the opportunity to do the footwork to track down an orchard and buy juice from them.

It's taken me five tries to get something decent. I tried tannin, an acid blend, and oaking, with mediocre results. I kind of wish all the tutorials online would stop saying "your first cider will be amazing!!1!", because that sets high expectations that will be discouraging if the first batch doesn't pan out. A better message might be "with persistence and experimentation, you'll be able to make something you love!". But that 's a rant for another time.

The last batch actually tastes really good. For me, the secret was adding frozen apple juice concentrate to taste at the end, then adding another dose for carbonation, and bottle-pasteurizing. Good body, good flavor, good bubbles. I'll be using frozen apple juice concentrate in all my subsequent batches.

As for yeasts: I recently ran an experiment; nottingham ale yeast against safcider yeast. Exact same ingredients, in exactly the same proportions, started at the same time. The nottingham ale yeast tasted fairly unremarkable. The safcider yeast ended up contributing an obnoxious black-pepper flavor and odor. The flavor/odor was so strong that I initially thought my rubber airlock seal had failed and was leaching rubber flavor in! But at this point, I'm pretty sure it was the yeast--I started sniffing all my airlock seals after washing, and none of them smelled like rubber. The pepper taste showed evidence of aging out, but I found it so unpleasant that I tossed the batch. I'm curious to know if you also had that result, since you're running safcider.

(I'm not entirely satisfied with nottingham, either, so now I'm running an experiment with nottingham against other yeasts. We'll see who will be crowned victor!)

TLDR; I found that sweetening with FAJC, carbonating, and bottle-pasteurizing worked wonders.

 

[z-bob]

(I'm not entirely satisfied with nottingham, either, so now I'm running an experiment with nottingham against other yeasts. We'll see who will be crowned victor!)

Try using wine yeast. They are cheaper than beer yeast, and most will add some esters that will enhance the fruitiness of the cider. I like Cote des Blancs, K1V-1116, and several of the Vintner's Harvest varieties that I bought on sale (I think they were AW4 and BV7)

 

[bmd2k1]

There are a number of successful cider making protocols folks here are using [emoji106] (Trial & error - which is part of the Fun...plus research/feedback here have helped me find my Happy Spot)

Mine uses D47 yeast & refrigeration post fermentation & cold crashing to create a variety of semi-sweet/sweet ciders in the FG range 1.02 - 1.03 +/- .002 or so...and with ABVs ranging typically from low 6% - low 14%.

My batch sizes are typically 4-6gallons & I use Speidel fermentors.

I'm in Michigan & ferment in my basement - typical temps in the full range of the 60s.

I use 100% juice (store bought AJ or from local cider mills) plus FAJC on the front end and post fermentation add a variety of things like 100% fruit concentrates from www.brownwoodacres.com, cinnamon sticks, different flavor extracts, maple syrup etc etc.

My ciders go back into 1gal containers & into fridge. Some will get tossed in swing top bottles & left at room temp for 7-10days to bottle carb -- then tossed into fridge.

I don't use any chemicals.

I enjoy variety & this approach has worked great 4 me [emoji16]

At some point a kegerator system will be acquired & added to my current mix [emoji111]

Cheers & Good Luck!

 

[Redpappy]

I'm working entirely with store-bought juice. I live in an apple-rich area, but haven't yet had the opportunity to do the footwork to track down an orchard and buy juice from them.

It's taken me five tries to get something decent. I tried tannin, an acid blend, and oaking, with mediocre results. I kind of wish all the tutorials online would stop saying "your first cider will be amazing!!1!", because that sets high expectations that will be discouraging if the first batch doesn't pan out. A better message might be "with persistence and experimentation, you'll be able to make something you love!". But that 's a rant for another time.

The last batch actually tastes really good. For me, the secret was adding frozen apple juice concentrate to taste at the end, then adding another dose for carbonation, and bottle-pasteurizing. Good body, good flavor, good bubbles. I'll be using frozen apple juice concentrate in all my subsequent batches.

As for yeasts: I recently ran an experiment; nottingham ale yeast against safcider yeast. Exact same ingredients, in exactly the same proportions, started at the same time. The nottingham ale yeast tasted fairly unremarkable. The safcider yeast ended up contributing an obnoxious black-pepper flavor and odor. The flavor/odor was so strong that I initially thought my rubber airlock seal had failed and was leaching rubber flavor in! But at this point, I'm pretty sure it was the yeast--I started sniffing all my airlock seals after washing, and none of them smelled like rubber. The pepper taste showed evidence of aging out, but I found it so unpleasant that I tossed the batch. I'm curious to know if you also had that result, since you're running safcider.

(I'm not entirely satisfied with nottingham, either, so now I'm running an experiment with nottingham against other yeasts. We'll see who will be crowned victor!)

TLDR; I found that sweetening with FAJC, carbonating, and bottle-pasteurizing worked wonders.

I had no black pepper or off flavors. I just had more of a water taste, not much apple flavor. And there’s is no real smell either

 

[user 272141]

Try using wine yeast. They are cheaper than beer yeast, and most will add some esters that will enhance the fruitiness of the cider. I like Cote des Blancs, K1V-1116, and several of the Vintner's Harvest varieties that I bought on sale (I think they were AW4 and BV7)

I'll keep that in mind! I think my containers are all booked at the moment, but I'd be interested in pitting the winner of the current yeast experiment against a wine yeast.

 

[bmd2k1]

Here's a nice chart of many yeasts available:

https://winemakermag.com/resource/yeast-strains-chart

 

[Maylar]

here's another..

http://www.piwine.com/media/pdf/yeast-selection-chart.pdf

 

[Redpappy]

I threw a few bottles in my keezer several weeks ago. Today I decided to open one up. It has cleared up, no real haze. I do get a slight hint of apple smell. Flavor still seems to be the same. 5 months since i started fermenting.. So I am thinking of experimenting but not sure if these would be good practices or not. If you could give me your thoughts on this, i would appreciate it.
Options that I am looking at doing,
1. Adding some brown sugar to a glass, then pouring my cider on top, slowly mixing in the brown sugar.
2. Adding some Frozen (thawed)AJ concentrate, pouring my cider on top, slowly mixing in the AJ.

If this is ok to do, what would be a good starting point on quantity? Thoughts are 2 TSP for a 12oz bottle.

thanks for any help.