Force carb in conical procedure

[bcrawfo2]

I’m doing my first batch in my new Spike conical and want to include force carbing in the conical to minimize steps after I get the beer in the keg.
Spike hasn’t yet released their card stone solution but they do show a picture. View attachment IMG_0987.jpg
I came up with something similar, at least it should accomplish the same thing
View attachment IMG_1164.jpg
What I noticed is once I turned on the gas....all the beer in the sight glass was pushed out. This kind of invalidates the point of a carb stone. I think the same thing would happen with Spike’s design. So...first question...can I do anything to prevent that from happening?

Second...I left my pressure at 5 psi at 36F for two days expecting my head pressure to start to go up. It never did. Samples tell me it’s starting to carbonate. But I didn’t see my head pressure start to go up until I cranked the gas up to 10 for a few mins.

Anyone else tried? What did you do?

 

[SpikeBrewing]

Does your design use a carb stone or are you just pumping CO2 into the port? You'll need a carb stone like our design to diffuse the CO2 into the beer. We've done a lot of testing and our design works great; carbed beer in less than 24hrs!

Also at 36F you'll want about 8-10psi of CO2 pressure; see chart below:

 

[bcrawfo2]

Yes...I have a carb stone at the bottom of the sight glass. My concern is...the point of a carb stone is to have it in contact with the liquid it's carbonating. In my sight glass....I'm not seeing that happen and wonder why. I had the sight glass fill up with beer and then when I turned on the co2, it pushed the beer out.

 

[SpikeBrewing]

I'll see if engineering has any insight into why your setup is not working. I can tell you that our carb stone does not have this issue.

 

[bcrawfo2]

I'll see if engineering has any insight into why your setup is not working. I can tell you that our carb stone does not have this issue.

Thanks. I’d be happy to buy one to try it out

 

[iijakii]

Any chance youre just putting too much pressure on it, or maybe a gash or something? Sounds like way too much coming out if it can push all the beer away? No first hand experience though.

 

[Bobby_M]

The problem is that the stack of plumbing has a small diameter bottleneck at the racking arm. The stone would be better placed on the dump port because beer will always touch the stone.

 

[augiedoggy]

It seems to me the best place for the stone to actually diffuse would be in the conical so the beer can circulate around it more effectively but I'll admit thats just a hunch and I completely see this is a design based upon whats already available on these conicals as far as ports and being able to use the same diffuser on different conicals without having to have a dedicated one for each.
As Bobby mentioned as long as the diameter opening is kept as large as possible it should be minimized if it happens at all since the beer will rush in the displace the co2 faster and more effectively..

I like the clear design! it allows one to really see when the beer is done accepting the gas.

 

[bcrawfo2]

Dont take this the wrong way but how do you really know? yours is all stainless right? Eventually it would carbonate either way just not as quickly.

It seems to me the bast place for the stone to actually diffuse would be in the conical so the beer can circulate around it more effectively but I'll admit thats just a hunch and I completely see this is a design based upon whats already available these conicals as far as ports.

Agree...the benefit to trying to do it like Spike did (and I copied) s that you don't have to dedicate the stone to the conical. Also...long TC stones are expensive.

 

[augiedoggy]

Any chance youre just putting too much pressure on it, or maybe a gash or something? Sounds like way too much coming out if it can push all the beer away? No first hand experience though.

also whats the micron rating of the stone here?

 

[augiedoggy]

Agree...the benefit to trying to do it like Spike did (and I copied) s that you don't have to dedicate the stone to the conical. Also...long TC stones are expensive.

lol you got me between edits...

 

[bcrawfo2]

also whats the micron rating of the stone here?

2 micron.

 

[BlkWater_brewer]

I’m doing my first batch in my new Spike conical and want to include force carbing in the conical to minimize steps after I get the beer in the keg.
Spike hasn’t yet released their card stone solution but they do show a picture. .........

Personally I question the design of this carb stone, seems overly fancy and counter-productive. Especially if you put it before a sight glass.The whole point is to expose the beer to a source of tiny bubbles. Anything that would take and concentrate the CO2 in a small space, say as in a sight glass, may look neat but is not efficient. The card stone should extend into the tank and not be encased in any fancy device where the ability to dissipate is restricted. But that is just my experience.

As you noted the head pressure does not always change much in the carbing process. During this time the gas is being dissolved in the solution because of the temp. The only time I even increase head pressure is during the actual kegging process. In keg carbing you over pressurize the keg and force the absorption.

 

[bcrawfo2]

Personally I question the design of this carb stone, seems overly fancy and counter-productive. Especially if you put it before a sight glass.The whole point is to expose the beer to a source of tiny bubbles. Anything that would take and concentrate the CO2 in a small space, say as in a sight glass, may look neat but is not efficient. The card stone should extend into the tank and not be encased in any fancy device where the ability to dissipate is restricted. But that is just my experience.

As you noted the head pressure does not always change much in the carbing process. During this time the gas is being dissolved in the solution because of the temp. The only time I even increase head pressure is during the actual kegging process. In keg carbing you over pressurize the keg and force the absorption.

The only reason I added the sight glass is to make it so I could add the carb stone onto the already full vessel. My stone wouldn't allow me to open the valve (much) when attached directly.
I'm thinking I'll have to dedicate a carb stone and leave it on the sample port...moving the sample valve to the racking cane.
I still don't get how this doesn't affect Spike's design. Their carb stone is longer than mine...that's the only difference. But Bobby's point is noted...it has to go all the way thru the valve and racking cane.

 

[dthompson79]

I would say the racking arm is your problem. The long bottle neck and the pressure are keeping the beer off the stone. Spikes looks like it is as close as they can get it to the valve without it interfering with the valve operation.

I bought the racking arm and used it for 5-6 batches. I will probably discontinue because it doesn't really help with getting clear beer or much more volume from this size of tanks. I just quickly rack of 1/2 pint of beer after a cold crash and ready to keg. My beer has been crystal clear

 

[bluemoon737]

^Agree with this...the racking arm is also likely pointed downward which is creating a pressurized CO2 pocket in the length of that piping that the head of the column of beer above the lowered position racking port can't overcome. You could try and rotate the racking arm upward which would then allow the beer to more easily flow "into" the piping with the stone. Even if that does work, you still have a much too restrictive "chamber" for the stone to be as effective as it should be.

 

[bcrawfo2]

^Agree with this...the racking arm is also likely pointed downward which is creating a pressurized CO2 pocket in the length of that piping that the head of the column of beer above the lowered position racking port can't overcome. You could try and rotate the racking arm upward which would then allow the beer to more easily flow "into" the piping with the stone. Even if that does work, you still have a much too restrictive "chamber" for the stone to be as effective as it should be.

BINGO!!!!! I rotated the racking arm and the sight glass filled with beer, even while under pressure from the stone. That's why Spike doesn't have a problem. They probably already figured that out and adjusted their process.

 

[augiedoggy]

BINGO!!!!! I rotated the racking arm and the sight glass filled with beer, even while under pressure from the stone. That's why Spike doesn't have a problem. They probably already figured that out and adjusted their process.

so you effectively had a trap filled with co2 before. I didnt even realize there was a racking arm being used here..

 

[bcrawfo2]

I'll see if engineering has any insight into why your setup is not working. I can tell you that our carb stone does not have this issue.

Just in case you missed my followup...I had the racking arm rotated down. Once I rotated it up, I'm in business. Maybe this could be in the FAQ, cause I didn't even think about it.