flavor difference between infusion and step mash

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shawnduthie

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I want to know what the difference in flavor is if I do an infusion mash at 65-66C (which has both alpha and beta active) compared to a step mash (start at 61 for 20 minutes and up to 68 for 40 minutes). Would the beer be drier, sweeter, more full bodied with one over the other? Is there an advantage to doing a more complicated step mash?
 
I used to mash in the oven, I would start at 63-65C and slowly ramp up to 75C. I’ve never mashed as low as 60C, but it sounds awfully dry.

In my experience, where you start is way more important than where you end up.
 
Do you mean an infusion mash v a decoction mash? A step mash is not a different mash than an infusion, it can be an infusion. A step mash is a mash with multiple temperature steps.
 
My question concerns the flavour differences between doing multiple temperature steps, as opposed to one temperature.

If I mashed in at 65-66C, then both alpha and beta amylase would be active, giving me a balanced beer (not too many fermantables, not too many non-fermentables).

And if I mash in at 61C for 20 minutes (activating alpha) and then stepped it up to 68C for 40 minutes (activating beta), I would also have a fairly balanced beer of fermentables and non-fermentables.

Would these beers taste the same? Would they be different?

If they are the same, why would one do a step mash instead of just holding the temperature at 66C?
 
long story short, the multiple step mashes are more for dryness. you start with your lower temp to break down the large sugars then ramp it up to break down the smaller chains. in the end you have very very fermentable mash.

as for flavor, i'm sure temperature plays a role. in my experience step mashes aren't very malty, feel thin in the mouth and accentuate bitterness a bit. i use step mashes in tripels and big IPA's that have a lot of caramel grains/unfermentables in the bill.
 
I agree that the step mash will be drier and thinner. Dryness will change the apparent flavor. The thinness will change the body of the beer.
 
And if I mash in at 61C for 20 minutes (activating alpha) and then stepped it up to 68C for 40 minutes (activating beta), I would also have a fairly balanced beer of fermentables and non-fermentables.

I think you have your enzymes mixed up there. Beta amylase works best around 140 and is denatured in the high 150's. Alpha works best a little higher.
 
long story short, the multiple step mashes are more for dryness. you start with your lower temp to break down the large sugars then ramp it up to break down the smaller chains. in the end you have very very fermentable mash.

as for flavor, i'm sure temperature plays a role. in my experience step mashes aren't very malty, feel thin in the mouth and accentuate bitterness a bit. i use step mashes in tripels and big IPA's that have a lot of caramel grains/unfermentables in the bill.

I ALWAYS step mash. It is very easy on my system. For me it is all about controlling the BODY of the final product. Yes I do make dry beers, but I also make very rich full bodied beers (from very simple grain bills)

A step mash will only give you a dry beer if you mash for a longer time at B-amylase rest temps. I always to a rest at 147 F (64 C) and then a rest at 160 F (71 C). I vary the times to tailor the body. If I want dry, I'll do 30 min. at 147 F (15 at 160). If I want full bodied, I'll do only 15-20 min. at 147F, and then 25-30 min. at 160F. I like this approach over a single infusion as I can create a fairly fermentable wort that still has some longer unfermentable dextrins in it to provide body. This allows me to keep my drier beers from being too thin, and my richer beers from being too heavy.

These time are what works on MY system. The times may vary depending on how quickly or slowly you can ramp between the temperatures.

I don't think there is a big influence on flavor either way, except for how flavor is influenced by the body of the beer.
 
I ALWAYS step mash. It is very easy on my system. For me it is all about controlling the BODY of the final product. Yes I do make dry beers, but I also make very rich full bodied beers (from very simple grain bills)

A step mash will only give you a dry beer if you mash for a longer time at B-amylase rest temps. I always to a rest at 147 F (64 C) and then a rest at 160 F (71 C). I vary the times to tailor the body. If I want dry, I'll do 30 min. at 147 F (15 at 160). If I want full bodied, I'll do only 15-20 min. at 147F, and then 25-30 min. at 160F. I like this approach over a single infusion as I can create a fairly fermentable wort that still has some longer unfermentable dextrins in it to provide body. This allows me to keep my drier beers from being too thin, and my richer beers from being too heavy.

These time are what works on MY system. The times may vary depending on how quickly or slowly you can ramp between the temperatures.

I don't think there is a big influence on flavor either way, except for how flavor is influenced by the body of the beer.
that's awsome information. i had a feeling something like that could be true. i wanted to experiment myself but i've taken a small hiatus on brewing in order to keep up with school. thanks for this!

what's your setup like?
 
I think you have your enzymes mixed up there. Beta amylase works best around 140 and is denatured in the high 150's. Alpha works best a little higher.

yes, you are right, I did get the two mixed up... maybe beer does kill brain cells? :mug:
 
Trying to get a total understanding of the step mashing because I would like to try it
 
"With the step mashing how much water do you use with each step?"

In the past I had a burner for my mashtun so I used no extra water. Now days I use a cooler tun so I keep 2 gal of boiling water on the burner in case I need to do temp correction or any time I want to do a step (rare). A lot of guy have a RIMS tube or a coil in their HLT (HERMS?) so they require no extra water either.

I did a decoction step mash last time just for fun and although it means cleaning another pot and dipper, I believe that will be my plan in the future. since I mash pretty wet to begin with I can skim most liquid (say a gallon) off the top an it goes from 155 to boiling in no time on the burner.
 
With the step mashing how much water do you use with each step?
depends on the volume of water you're adjusting and what temp you want to go to. i use this calculator. http://www.brewheads.com/tempchange.php

typically it's 1gal or less of boiling water.

Trying to get a total understanding of the step mashing because I would like to try it
it's pretty simple. you start at a lower temp to do a beta amylase rest then you bump it up with a gallon of water or so to do an alpha amylase rest. basically you're increasing mash efficiency. in a single step infusion you're either working one enzyme or the other or you aim for 153 which results in a balance between the two. when you do the step mash you allow each enzyme to activate which ends up creating much more fermentable sugar. rest times at each step effect body so it's worth playing with each rest to figure what you like.
 
Onkel_Udo said:
"With the step mashing how much water do you use with each step?"

In the past I had a burner for my mashtun so I used no extra water. Now days I use a cooler tun so I keep 2 gal of boiling water on the burner in case I need to do temp correction or any time I want to do a step (rare). A lot of guy have a RIMS tube or a coil in their HLT (HERMS?) so they require no extra water either.

I did a decoction step mash last time just for fun and although it means cleaning another pot and dipper, I believe that will be my plan in the future. since I mash pretty wet to begin with I can skim most liquid (say a gallon) off the top an it goes from 155 to boiling in no time on the burner.

Just a little something I picked re: decoction. When you pull your decoction it is best to pull the grain solids as your decoction medium instead of the clear liquid. The enzymes are concentrated in the liquid and you do not want to denature them before mash out if at all possible. Plus by boiling the solids you get the benefit of extra heat in the starches to break them down and some maillard effect to generate more interesting flavors.

Hope that helps.
 
Just a little something I picked re: decoction. When you pull your decoction it is best to pull the grain solids as your decoction medium instead of the clear liquid. The enzymes are concentrated in the liquid and you do not want to denature them before mash out if at all possible. Plus by boiling the solids you get the benefit of extra heat in the starches to break them down and some maillard effect to generate more interesting flavors.

Hope that helps.

Thanks for the tip. Having a more "limited" equipment profile has made brewing more of an experiment than it used to be. Kind of fun but also occasionally frustrating.

Next brew on the docket is a 80 shilling so a perfect time to do a decoction.
 
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