First try at a strong scotch ale

[carsonwarstler]

I'm a big fan of wee heavys, Scottish strongs, strong scotch ales (whichever name you care to give them) but regretfully cannot find many where I currently live. Seems like every brewery where I used to live had at least 1 version. So I'm attempting to brew one for the first time. I peeked around at various threads and recipes online and think I've come up with a fairly basic recipe and process that should yield good results. Please let me know what you think.. Especially if you brew this style with good success

13lbs golden promise (if I can find some), if not, uk pale 2 row
4 oz uk roasted barley
2oz peated malt

1.5oz east kent holdings at 60min

Wlp028

Mash for 60min@158

Collect 1 gallon of first runnings, boil it down to a pint. Then add to the rest of the runnings and boil them for 60 min.

Ferment at 60f for 2-3 weeks. Then age in a secondary for another 2 weeks around 65, then drop that temp to 40 for a couple more weeks ( probably kegged by then).

Thoughts....

 

[Bheher]

Looks like a good start, I would add another dark/crystal malt. Maybe Crystal 40 or 60. This will help give you a good caramel flavor that the style is known for.
What batch size are you brewing and what is your Mash temp?
I would ferment at 65 or 67 degrees 60F is pretty cool.

 

[carsonwarstler]

Looks like a good start, I would add another dark/crystal malt. Maybe Crystal 40 or 60. This will help give you a good caramel flavor that the style is known for.
What batch size are you brewing and what is your Mash temp?
I would ferment at 65 or 67 degrees 60F is pretty cool.

I've read the flavors really come Out with a cooler than usual ale fermentation temperature. So maybe I will set my controller at 62 and let it fluctuate to 65.

Mashing at a high temp of 158.

What do you think about my planned kettle caramelization?

 

[BryceL]

I agree it looks like you are off to a pretty good start. Your caramelization sounds like a good plan. I've only brewed this style once and it came out fairly decent. I took a gallon of 1st runnings and boiled it down to about half. I could pick up some slight caramelization in the final product, but if I brew it again I would definitely boil it down more to enhance the flavor. I asked about the style on here before I brewed it but didn't get too much feedback, it seemed like not too many people brew it. Hopefully you are able to get some advice from someone with more experience with the style. Good luck with it though!!

 

[Bheher]

Typically a higher fermentation temperature will have more flavors from yeast esters, lower temperatures will result in a cleaner beer with less yeast ester flavors.
If you are doing a 5 or 6 gallon batch with 13lbs of base malt, I think you are looking at an original gravity of something like 1.065.
I think if you mash at 158 and then ferment at 60 or 62 you run a risk of having a pretty high final gravity and the beer coming out too sweet tasting.
Flocculation is when the yeast is finished fermenting and falls to the bottom of the fermentation vessel. It dosent really matter what temperature this happens at. When you say flocculate do you mean that you will start the frementation at 62 degrees and let it rise to 65 degrees to finish fermentation? If you do it that way I think you will be ok.

Kettle carmelization is a good idea for this style. Going from a gallon to a pint might take a while, you can just see how thick it gets as you are reducing the volume and play that part by ear.

 

[Golddiggie]

Here's a recipe that was done by a group... Read the critique thread about how it came out too.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/12-12-12-wee-heavy-recipe-formulation-271379/

 

[cluckk]

I'd recommend Wyeast's Scottish Ale yeast (1728).

Everything I've read recommends against using Peated Malt. Use it if you want, but if you use the Scottish Yeast at low temperatures it will impart a smokiness without it.

Mine has:
15 lb 2 Row
2 lb Chocolate Malt
2 lb Caramel Malt

1 oz Brewers Gold at 60
1/2 oz Fuggles at 60

Boiled for 90 minutes

 

[F250]

Carson, I found this at NB concerning your yeast:

This yeast can reproduce complex, flavorful Scottish style ales. This yeast can be an everyday strain, similar to WLP001. Hop character is not muted with this strain, as it is with WLP002. Does not ferment well less than 62° F, unless active fermentation is underway. Some Scottish ales are fermented below 62° F, but with this yeast strain, 65-65° F will produce desired results. Apparent attenuation: 70-75%. Flocculation: medium. Optimum temp: 65°-70° F

Good luck.

Rick

 

[solbes]

I went 12 lbs Golden Promise base, 6 oz Crystal 120, and 3 oz roasted barley for an OG of 1.073 (added 1 lb of DME due to kettle size constraints). No peated malt in mine. Mashed between 157 and 155. I kettle carmelized 1 gallon down to just over a pint. It was thick! The main wort boiled 90 minutes and was combined with the carmelized wort with about 50 minutes remaining. S-04 fermented in low 60's down to 1.020 FG @ 3 weeks.

Unfortunately no meaningful tasting notes as its in week 6 of secondary (@ ~ 50F). Tasted pretty good at racking, but I'm sure it'll improve after bottling and aging. I'm going to try and keep my hands off till next fall.

 

[carsonwarstler]

Thanks for all the suggestions everyone!

I think I will leave the peated malt out and maybe toss in some crystal 120. Still planning on the

Ill do some more research on my yeast. I usually use white labs bc it's readily available and very fresh. But if the queasy ends up giving me the natural smoky flavor and wlp028 doesn't, ill find a source for it.

 

[carsonwarstler]

Thanks for all the suggestions everyone!

I think I will leave the peated malt out and maybe toss in some crystal 120. Still planning on the

Ill do some more research on my yeast. I usually use white labs bc it's readily available and very fresh. But if the queasy ends up giving me the natural smoky flavor and wlp028 doesn't, ill find a source for it.

Sorry my typing went whacko. Still planning on the caramelization. Will research the wyeast vs wlp028 and decide which will naturally give me that flavor. Looks like from a few reads people suggested... This beer is more about the process, yeast selection, and not so much the actual grains.

Thanks again and ill check back later today and let you know what I decide to do.

 

[dumsboa09]

I just brewed a 3 gallon batch on Saturday.

8# MO
5 oz crystal 40
4 oz aromatic
4 oz special B
3 oz victory
1 oz roasted barley

.75 oz northern brewer at 60m

WLP028 fermenting at 65F.

 

[BryceL]

I like the idea of leaving out the peated malt. I used 4oz of smoked malt in mine, which to me was way overpowering. My next batch I will probably leave out the smoked malt completely and increase my kettle caramelization.

 

[carsonwarstler]

I've decided to change it up and go with


14# golden promise
4oz roasted barley

Wlp028 (since I can't find the wyeast scottish anywhere nearby)

And 1.5oz EKG.

Mash at 158.

Take 1st gallon of runnings, boil down to a pint, then add with 10 minutes remaining in the full 60min boil.

Does anyone know how to calculate gravities when doing a caramelization like this? I would think it increases the gravity but I'm not 100% sure and want to make sure I pitch the right size starter.

On beersmith if I create a recipe with these inputs (golden promise as maris otter); it shows 1.071 estimated OG and a real light SRM. I'm guessing these will be thrown off by the caramelization, so anyone with knowledge on this?

 

[solbes]

I might suggest a longer boil, 90 minutes min. Some go longer. Also it takes awhile to boil 1 gallon down. You do want to make sure you don't burn the kettle carmelization, as it is a possibility. Sounds tasty!

 

[frazier]

First off, I'm pretty sure that WLP028 and Wyeast 1728 are the same strain. I've fermented this at 58 to 60 degrees, and it was slow but steady, and the result was good.

As for calculating the OG, that's a bit of a guess, but if you tell beersmith all the grains, and the expected volume, it should be close.

And as I said in the PM, don't "boil it down to a pint." Boil it down to a temperature.

Let us know how it goes,

Cheers!

 

[carsonwarstler]

Thanks everyone. Got the plan down. Ill keep you posted on how it goes. Thanks!

 

[dumsboa09]

My opinion if you're gonna do a long boil or boil down the wort would be to drop the roast. I did a 60minute boil with mine mashed at 152 and reached a 1.081 OG without boiling down any runnings. WLP028 took off like crazy too.

 

[carsonwarstler]

My opinion if you're gonna do a long boil or boil down the wort would be to drop the roast. I did a 60minute boil with mine mashed at 152 and reached a 1.081 OG without boiling down any runnings. WLP028 took off like crazy too.

I'm quite new to this process but I believe there are some sort of malliard reactions that occur when caramelizing wort. It creates a different flavor that can be obtained by a mixture of malts but for the sake of staying true to the style, a kettle caramelization is necessary to achieve that flavor. I'm not doing it to add any gravity points, just flavor.

 

[dumsboa09]

I'm quite new to this process but I believe there are some sort of malliard reactions that occur when caramelizing wort. It creates a different flavor that can be obtained by a mixture of malts but for the sake of staying true to the style, a kettle caramelization is necessary to achieve that flavor. I'm not doing it to add any gravity points, just flavor.

You're right it is true to style. I tried to stay in style without the time haha. The wife doesn't really like my brew days so I kept it as quick as possible. The smells are great, so keep us all posted on the brew.

 

[Stephonovich]

GP/MO + RB in a ratio of 82:1 is all you need. That, and about a year.

/Took part in 12-12-12 swap.

 

[carsonwarstler]

GP/MO + RB in a ratio of 82:1 is all you need. That, and about a year.

/Took part in 12-12-12 swap.

That's awesome. I tried to read through all 62 pages of that thread but it was hard to do via phone. Thanks.

 

[carsonwarstler]

GP/MO + RB in a ratio of 82:1 is all you need. That, and about a year.

/Took part in 12-12-12 swap.

So if I do 14 lb of gp I'm looking at approx 2.72oz of rb. That sound about right? To me seems a little low on the rb but your formula is pretty tried and true.

 

[Pappers_]

I brewed this wee heavy in May, bulk-aged it until about a month ago. It had a complex grain bill for me, but it has turned into a really nice winter warmer. Definitely a sipping beer, perfect for a cold winter's night. Ended up at 9%. Recipe is here http://www.singingboysbrewing.com/Wee_Heavy.html

 

[Spintab]

I say leave the peat. It's different than a straight up smoked flavor. It has more earthiness to it. Don't go over that 2-3oz though. I made a scotch a couple years ago with 6oz in it and it was tough to drink until I was good and used to the flavor.

Just brewed the recipe below a month ago. Honestly forgot what I swapped out for fuggles but I'm pretty sure it was the styrian goldings. When I brew this again I will definitely go bigger. It finished a little high, 1.020ish so I'll go up to 1.075, make sure to make a healthy starter, and I like the kettle caramelization idea. Closest I came to that was a decoction mash out. I still really like this batch though. It's like a session scotch that really comes to fruition once the second half of the pint warms up a bit.

I thought about doing a mini kreussen the next time around. Leave out the peat and roast in the main batch then throw in a vigorously fermenting gallon of roasty peated kreussen later on.

A note. I don't try to stay real close to style. I like tweaks like a little wheat.

------------------------------------
meScotch Take 2 (Scottish Light 80/-)

Original Gravity (OG): 1.063 (°P): 15.4
Colour (SRM): 15.4 (EBC): 30.3
Bitterness (IBU): 14.9 (Average)

#11.5 Pale Malt
#0.75 Caramunich I
#0.75 Munich I
#0.5 Wheat Malt
#0.25 Peated Malt
#0.25 Roasted Barley

0.4 oz Styrian Golding (4.4% Alpha) @ 60 Minutes (Boil)
0.6 oz Willamette (7.1% Alpha) @ 30 Minutes (Boil)


Single step Infusion at 155°F for 60 Minutes. Boil for 60 Minutes

Fermented at 62°F with WLP028 - Edinburgh Scottish Ale

 

[abrix]

If you haven't done (m)any big beers before, I'd recommend having some light DME on hand, as your efficiency can drop on bigger beers. Check your gravity at the start of the boil, and if you're low, you can use the DME to get up to snuff. I don't have BeerSmith, but I assume it has the mathemagical powers to help with the quantity.

 

[carsonwarstler]

If you haven't done (m)any big beers before, I'd recommend having some light DME on hand, as your efficiency can drop on bigger beers. Check your gravity at the start of the boil, and if you're low, you can use the DME to get up to snuff. I don't have BeerSmith, but I assume it has the mathemagical powers to help with the quantity.

Thanks. Does anyone know how golden promise does with efficiency? Is it pretty close to Briess 2 row or Maris Otter?

 

[abrix]

According to the numbers I use, Maris Otter or Golden Promise (from Thomas Fawcett) should produce slightly more extractable sugars than Briess 2-row, but there was also a lot of chatter on my local club's listserv about recent Maris Otter not having as much extract potential as it should. That said, variation in moisture content (which is not really worth measuring) is more than enough to explain (or mask) the differences.

I wouldn't fuss about the recipe, but just be prepared to add extract if your pre-boil gravity is low, or for that matter, add water (in the event that you get a pre-boil gravity that is higher than expected...it happens).

 

[DavidJP]

I don't think you need to use Golden Promise. If you look at the traquair house ale which is probably one of the best examples, they use english malt, i'd guess maris otter.
http://www.traquair.co.uk/traquair-house-brewery
Fantastic stuff especially on cask

 

[carsonwarstler]

According to the numbers I use, Maris Otter or Golden Promise (from Thomas Fawcett) should produce slightly more extractable sugars than Briess 2-row, but there was also a lot of chatter on my local club's listserv about recent Maris Otter not having as much extract potential as it should. That said, variation in moisture content (which is not really worth measuring) is more than enough to explain (or mask) the differences.

I wouldn't fuss about the recipe, but just be prepared to add extract if your pre-boil gravity is low, or for that matter, add water (in the event that you get a pre-boil gravity that is higher than expected...it happens).

Excellent

 

[jmichaeldesign]

My strong scotch usually turns out to be the best beer of the year for me. I mash in the medium range 152-154. I really think it needs some crystal malt to give it the right flavor, but keep the amount really low.

88.3% Pale Ale Malt - I use rahr. Its cheap and works out well for me
3.7% Caramel 60
2.7% Caramel 120 or Special B, I prefer the Special B, but they're similar
2.7% Pale Chocolate
2.7% Honey Malt

40 ibus at 60 minutes, I've used goldings or willamette I do think its important to use a large amount of low alpha hops to get a bit of hop flavor carrying through

5 ibus at 10 mins. I like a hint of late hop flavor in my wee heavy. I let them age so this addition ends up being very subtle. Once again willamette or goldings.


I like all my beers well attenuated. The large amount of base malt and the low ish mash temp work well for this. My last batch of wee heavy started at 1.088 and finished at 1.16. I design my beers for 80% attenuation, especially for high gravity beers.

 

[Pappers_]

I like all my beers well attenuated. The large amount of base malt and the low ish mash temp work well for this. My last batch of wee heavy started at 1.088 and finished at 1.16. I design my beers for 80% attenuation, especially for high gravity beers.

Your beer may be delicious, but its drier than the BJCP guidelines suggest and what I expect when drinking a Wee Heavy. Perhaps not an issue, but an observation.

 

[Stephonovich]

So if I do 14 lb of gp I'm looking at approx 2.72oz of rb. That sound about right? To me seems a little low on the rb but your formula is pretty tried and true.

The recipe I used was 20.5 # of MO and 4 oz. of RB, hence 82:1. It doesn't have to be exactly that; I think the original proposed recipe was 20# MO and 12 oz. RB. Buried somewhere in the thread is the generally decided upon ratio that I then used. If I do it again, I might bump up the RB to 6 oz., and probably do a heavier caramelization. That, and try to get something resembling head retention. Could try more hops (you're not going to notice it anyway) with later adds, and of course, higher carb levels.

 

[carsonwarstler]

The recipe I used was 20.5 # of MO and 4 oz. of RB, hence 82:1. It doesn't have to be exactly that; I think the original proposed recipe was 20# MO and 12 oz. RB. Buried somewhere in the thread is the generally decided upon ratio that I then used. If I do it again, I might bump up the RB to 6 oz., and probably do a heavier caramelization. That, and try to get something resembling head retention. Could try more hops (you're not going to notice it anyway) with later adds, and of course, higher carb levels.

Would you say with that ratio the color was more of an amber, brown, or porter?

 

[Stephonovich]

Would you say with that ratio the color was more of an amber, brown, or porter?

Brown-Porter. Beersmith has it at about 14 SRM, but that doesn't take into account the extra color added by the caramelized wort added back in. Really rough guess, probably about 25 SRM actual.

 

[carsonwarstler]

Brown-Porter. Beersmith has it at about 14 SRM, but that doesn't take into account the extra color added by the caramelized wort added back in. Really rough guess, probably about 25 SRM actual.

Thanks, exactly what I needed. I like my scotch ales to be a big darker and toastier/roastier than normal. So I'm going to go with 14lb mo and 4.25oz rb. 1.75oz EKG. Ill keep it basic then if there's a flavor I didn't get, I'll start adding more grain like peated, etc. Thanks again everyone!