First timer - yeast doesn't seem to work

[kalistha]

Hi there,

I'm a complete newbie to cider making and on a lark decided to get into it as we had a bumper crop of apples from our usually infertile apple trees this year.

This is roughly what happened:

1. Picked a whole bunch of apples, ordered equipment
2. Equipment arrived, realised i needed a juicer
3. Bought a juicer. By this time, half the apples were bad.
4. Threw bad apples out, juiced the good ones. Filled half of a 5-gallon fermenting jug. Decided needed more apples.
5. Only had time to pick apples on the next weekend (5 days later), so tossed a load of sodium metabisulphite in the fermenter to sterilise the juice.
6. picked more apples, juiced them over a 2-3 days (hard work!) and added them into my fermenter.
7. finished 24 hours ago, and threw in my yeast. (Youngs cider yeast), according to instructions on packet - toss it in, wait 15 minutes, stir.
8. had too much juice for 5 gallons, so used a plastic demijohn as well (filled half of that).
9. popped airlocks on both containers, but 24 hours later there is no bubbling through the airlocks, nothing. getting worried as apparently vinegar could happen if fermentation doesn't start soon?

the other potential problem is that using a kitchen juicer (centrifugal type) i had a whole load of foam sitting on top of my juice which is looking pretty funky (i can't post pictures as i'm new, but if you want to see it, please pm me).

really not sure what to do now - it's been a couple weeks of hard work and money spent that i don't want to go to waste

can anyone help?

 

[Yan]

How much sulfite? If it's a real big load, yeast won't be able to survive in it, and you might have to double your batch and/or agitate it a whole lot to expel the SO2. You only really need about a quarter teaspoon per five gallon batch. Me, I just sanitize my gear with a strong sulfite solution and don't rinse. Also, it's possible your yeast hasn't been through it's lag phase. I've had some brews take longer than a day to start.

 

[kalistha]

uh oh. i must have put about 8-10 teaspoons in - but that was about 7-8 days before i put in the yeast. will i now have to order more yeast and agitate it a whole lot before adding the yeast?

 

[kalistha]

@Yan: do you want to see a photo?

 

[Yooper]

uh oh. i must have put about 8-10 teaspoons in - but that was about 7-8 days before i put in the yeast. will i now have to order more yeast and agitate it a whole lot before adding the yeast?

How much? 1/4 teaspoon would have been adequate. If you really did put 10 teaspoons in, you'll have a problem getting the yeast to "work".

I'd start splashing/stirring/shaking to see if you can get some of the sulfite to disipate.

 

[kalistha]

strange thing though - i have another half a demijohn full that i didn't add any sulphite to - and that doesn't seem to be bubbling as well.

 

[kalistha]

is the foam an issue by the way? will it interfere in any way?

 

[oldmate]

The foam wouldn't have mattered unless you didn't stir/shake/mix the yeast into the juice. Also, a bit too much sulphite, definitely start shaking it, and you also should wait at least 72hours before deciding that there is no fermentation!

 

[kalistha]

ok, thanks. i'll start shaking today and wait a couple more days.

 

[kalistha]

ok quick update. it's now been 3 days and still no visible bubbling in my main fermenter, however i've noticed the colour of the juice getting lighter - is this a sign of fermentation?

i've stirred and agitated the container, but nothing much else seems to be happening apart from the colour. i've sniffed it - it smells of juice and a yeasty smell, no smell of vinegar thankfully.

how long should i wait before trying to repitch the yeast?

in my other smaller demijohn (the one i didn't sulphite) though there are no bubbles if i look closely there seems to be sediment moving around slightly - there's also some condensation at the top of the demijohn on the plastic where there is an airspace. is this a good sign?

 

[manticle]

Did you measure the gravity? If it's shifting then the cider is fermenting. Reliance on airlocks is like relying on steam to tell how hot something is.

It isn't a scientific instrument.

 

[oldmate]

Did you take an OG? If you did, take another hydro reading and compare it to that. Sediment moving is a good sign, but the condensation is probably only because the demijohn is in a warm place.

 

[kalistha]

oops...i don't have a hydrometer. between buying the fermenter, demijohns, airlocks and stuff didn't really have enough money left for what started as a laugh and is quickly turning very serious!

 

[oldmate]

I personally don't use a hydro on my ciders, I ferment to taste. I guess for your first time it would have been useful, but there's not much you can do now except wait.

 

[Kauai_Kahuna]

A hydrometer while not required, is highly recommended for someone starting out.
Also, sometimes you just don't get a wild active fermentation. I started two ciders yesterday. On in a better bottle, and one in an plastic bucket.
Today there were no signs of fermentation, but I pulled out the bucket and did a little stir to mix things up and degass a little to make the yeast happy. No bubbles, but the Specific Gravity has already dropped .003. Not much, but it tells me the yeast are at work, just not showing it.

 

[manticle]

Not required in the sense that a tape measure is not required for a carpenter.

You can guess if your brew is fermenting and when it's finished as opposed to being stalled or slow. As you get more experience your guess will become more educated - it's still a guess though.

@oldmate - presumably you are kegging or pasteurising or stopping yeast action through some other method?

 

[oldmate]

@oldmate - presumably you are kegging or pasteurising or stopping yeast action through some other method?

Yes, I use Pappers' bottle pasteurising method, it's never failed me.

 

[kalistha]

thanks for the replies guys, appreciate it. it's about 15 degrees celsius here in london at the moment - maybe that's affecting it as well?

also does the colour getting lighter indicate anything at all?

 

[kalistha]

also - just tried tasting the cider - tastes abit sourish i'm proper worried now!

 

[manticle]

Buy a hydrometer. Cheap way of putting your mind at ease.

I ferment my ciders around 14-15 degrees C which is fine depending on what yeast you are using.

 

[kalistha]

i bought a hydrometer, and tested my cider. as expected, the large one (due to too much sulphite) has not fermented at all - it still looks like apple juice except all the sediment has gone to the bottom.

the smaller demijohn looks like it has fermented - i tried racking it off but couldn't get rid of all the particles - how do i get it clear? can i add pectin enzyme at this stage?