First time, having spund

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bracconiere

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so i've got a blowtie, it's reading 5psi. but it's not making any noise?

is that normal? i know my fermenter's lid starts leaking after it's got 5psi in it....just wondering if the lid is leaking, or the spundy thing is doing it's job right?

if i loosen the set dial on the blowtie, it starts hissing, but the pressure drops too.
 

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The blowtie valve doesn't make much noise unless a lot of air is flowing through it. You can hook a piece of tubing to the exit side of the blowtie valve and then run that into a container of water/sanitizer. The bubble activity will give you an idea of how much gas is exiting the valve.
 
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bracconiere

bracconiere

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The blowtie valve doesn't make much noise unless a lot of air is flowing through it. You can hook a piece of tubing to the exit side of the blowtie valve and then run that into a container of water/sanitizer. The bubble activity will give you an idea of how much gas is exiting the valve.


yeah, that's not a bad idea. i put my ear right up next to it, and a bit of air is coming out of it....

on a side note is 5psi enough to call it spunding? :mug: (and will it be enough to let me ferment at 75-80f?)
 

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yes - so the higher pressure will suppress more of the ester profile. i do not have temp control in my garage here in SoCal - i typically set my spunding valves to 5-8 PSI. i have gone to 10-12 before but I do not detect a noticeable difference.

I set low 2-3 psi for english if i want that profile.

i have done a Rye IPA with Lutra at 95f at 10 PSI and it came out very clean with no flaws
 
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bracconiere

bracconiere

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yes - so the higher pressure will suppress more of the ester profile. i do not have temp control in my garage here in SoCal - i typically set my spunding valves to 5-8 PSI. i have gone to 10-12 before but I do not detect a noticeable difference.

I set low 2-3 psi for english if i want that profile.

i have done a Rye IPA with Lutra at 95f at 10 PSI and it came out very clean with no flaws


well i got it up to 7psi now..... for some reason i've never used SS fermenters before. and, this is a milk can. and it makes me nervous. what do you spund in?

i mean my milk can is made of thicker stuff then my kegs that are rated for 80psi, but i'm still nervous....

edit: now that i notice your considerable fermenter list, they're mostly all at 5psi.....
 

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Hey bracco, seems like you are more pressure fermenting than spunding. I spund by racking to C kegs when beer still has some gravity points to work out, typically around .006-8 left to go. That way I can let pressure get up to 30 PSI at around 60F for a nice full carbonation.

My old conical fermenters can not hold much pressure either, so this method works well for me.
 

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I understand pressure fermenting to mean fermenting under controlled pressure to achieve fewer esters while still using a faster higher temp fermentation.

Spunding, at least the way I use the term, is to naturally carbonate beer by letting the C02 pressure build up at the very end of fermentation.
 

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well i got it up to 7psi now..... for some reason i've never used SS fermenters before. and, this is a milk can. and it makes me nervous. what do you spund in?

i mean my milk can is made of thicker stuff then my kegs that are rated for 80psi, but i'm still nervous....

edit: now that i notice your considerable fermenter list, they're mostly all at 5psi.....
I use 5g corny kegs for fermentors. i bent my dip tubes to they draw 1" off the bottom of the keg. i serve and ferment in the same keg
 
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bracconiere

bracconiere

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I understand pressure fermenting to mean fermenting under controlled pressure to achieve fewer esters while still using a faster higher temp fermentation.

Spunding, at least the way I use the term, is to naturally carbonate beer by letting the C02 pressure build up at the very end of fermentation.

ahh, i thought pressure fermenting was how you got the naturaly carbed beer? :mug:


I use 5g corny kegs for fermentors. i bent my dip tubes to they draw 1" off the bottom of the keg. i serve and ferment in the same keg

well i've got a couple a ball lock posts in my milk can lid, one gas, the bev with a floating dip tube...and WAS seriously considering just serving out of it....i mean i DO have 3 beer fridges....

but for this batch i plan to try to closed transfer to 2 kegs....have to see how that goes....
 
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bracconiere

bracconiere

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Hoping for the best, esp. from @bracconiere's milk can experiment!


hopefully that's just spirit i'm sharing! i'm down to one keg, and i only have this one spundinging fermenter going...lol, it's fun to even say spund! :D :mug:


it'll crack me up if i actually manage to make good beer with this thing! but as far as i'm going, pitched yeast 30g's dry apex san diego, into 10 gallons of 70f wort, hooked up the spund, it was at 5 psi this morning. raised it to 7-8psi....mostly just hoping to save an ounce or two of co2 purging a keg....
 

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you could, if you had the serving keg sitting around - jumper gas post from milk can to liquid post on serving keg. Then your spunding valve on the gas post of your serving keg keg. Fermenation would feed co2 and purge the keg. This would tie up the serving keg for the entire fermenation, or however long you chose. It would be unwieldy to move, but if youre going for gas savings, fermenation would purge the keg... just sanitize the serving keg first
 
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bracconiere

bracconiere

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you could, if you had the serving keg sitting around - jumper gas post from milk can to liquid post on serving keg. Then your spunding valve on the gas post of your serving keg keg. Fermenation would feed co2 and purge the keg. This would tie up the serving keg for the entire fermenation, or however long you chose. It would be unwieldy to move, but if youre going for gas savings, fermenation would purge the keg... just sanitize the serving keg first


i was planing on just hooking the second regulator up to the gas post of the milk can, and pushing through a 2.5' length of 1/4" line with two bev QDs....i tried it with 10' of 3/16" was taking forever....if i have the lid on the keg though, not sure how to tell it's full, and need to switch to the second....

seriously, 1387 cu.in in 5 gallons, figuring i put the spunding on the keg and set it to 4psi, and the milk can to 5psi with co2....would i be looking at almost 30 minutes to fill a keg? damn i drink it faster then that! lol j/k
 

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2021-12-2314.54.405218502356847180254.jpg
It takes a while, esp. with skinny hose.
 
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bracconiere

bracconiere

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I have about 23 gallons in the fridge and about 10 gallons of that needs to die by next weekend. Why don't you swing by SE DC and I'll get you good and jolly. :bigmug:


we can hang out i'll drain your keg(s) and we can light heartedly wise crack and trash talk @sibelman for having such a simple setup! lol :mug:

and sibelman, i hope that's not a red heat lamp! otherwise...... :mug:
 
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sibelman

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Red? No, infra-red -- a white ceramic reptile cage thing.

I'd join y'all in SE DC but I moved away from there >30 years ago. Only got 15 gal in the fridge -- none of it carbed up yet.:no:

That abbey ale (my first Belgian ever) I was transferring at ~14psi/70°F tastes promising. Gonna let it sit for a while in the keg before chilling it down - I hear that's a good thing with this Westmalle yeast.
 

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not sure how to tell it's full, and need to switch to the second....
You could fill your kegs with water and weigh the keg then on the day you keg you would pretty much know when the kegs are full. I was thinking you have your CO2 on a scale if I'm remembering correctly.
 
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bracconiere

bracconiere

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well aprently fermenting under pressure is FAST....i brewed this on the 22nd, it took off 23rd....i just pulled a sample, it measures 3.9 brix 4.5...optical says 5...but being i know my OG was 1.062...all of those put it as done....as far as filling kegs...would it be possible to do it by psi? i have 8 psi in the fermenter with 10 gallons wort, and 6 gallons dead space. i'd think a person smarter then me could just set the spunding valve on the recieving keg at the right balance of pressures couldn't he?
 

sibelman

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Yes, spunding at the receiving keg set just below pressure in fermenter. However, I believe you'll need to add CO2 to the fermenter as things progress, unless gravity helps. Probably no more CO2 needed if the fermenter is above the receiving keg.

That's some fast beer -- dunno if the fermentation pressure is responsible, though. Intuitively, it seems to me that pressure would, if anything, slow the fermentation.
 
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bracconiere

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Yes, spunding at the receiving keg set just below pressure in fermenter. However, I believe you'll need to add CO2 to the fermenter as things progress, unless gravity helps. Probably no more CO2 needed if the fermenter is above the receiving keg.

That's some fast beer -- dunno if the fermentation pressure is responsible, though. Intuitively, it seems to me that pressure would, if anything, slow the fermentation.


yeah, i'm basing my FG on a quick refrac reading, and OG....comes up around 0.994 or so....

but so i should put the fermenter on a chair? i've been transfering for like 2 hours i went from a empty 9lb keg to 26lb....at a pint a pound...? i think i'll try putting the fermenter on a chair....

seems to be flowing a bit better on the chair...thanks for the thought!
 
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bracconiere

bracconiere

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got some bug still to work through, but i bled the pressure and opened the fermenter....sample i tasted was really malty...i think i'm going to be a pressure fermenter from now on. just need to figure out how to keg it.

waiting for a hydro test, to confirm the refrac. but it looked like it was still fermenting....
 

sibelman

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Cool. It can finish in the keg(s) and then get chilled/carbed. Sounds like hydro test(s) is the thing.

Or you could just chill, carb and drink it now if it tastes good! Not like there's gonna be any bottle bombs.
 
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bracconiere

bracconiere

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Cool. It can finish in the keg(s) and then get chilled/carbed. Sounds like hydro test(s) is the thing.

Or you could just chill, carb and drink it now if it tastes good! Not like there's gonna be any bottle bombs.


i don't know why the refrac read ~4.5 brix...this thing is definatly not done fermenting...but i am drinking a glass that i got into a keg now. it's yeasty,

but the maltyness went away, maybe i should start drinking my beer like an englishman? i would say the keg was not purged of air first....

i didn't pull enough for a SG reading with hydrometer last night before bed, but i got some from the keg in a pan degassing now.....


(and lesson i think i took away from my first attempt at pressure transfering, make sure it's actually done fermenting, otherwise your floating dip tube will just suck all the krausen... ;) lol )
 

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pressure does not speed up the fermentation process. What it does is allows you to ferment lagers at a higher temperature (ale range) without negative esters or other yeast expressions. The higher temps are what drive the fast fermentation.

If you are doing an ale...then I would not spund or have it under any pressure for the first few days to get the right yeast "character".

I did a hefe under pressure from day one and it was totally lacking any "hefe"...repeated with the same keg and yeast cake but a blow off tube to start with and the hefe hit all the right notes.
 
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bracconiere

bracconiere

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pressure does not speed up the fermentation process. What it does is allows you to ferment lagers at a higher temperature (ale range) without negative esters or other yeast expressions. The higher temps are what drive the fast fermentation.

If you are doing an ale...then I would not spund or have it under any pressure for the first few days to get the right yeast "character".

I did a hefe under pressure from day one and it was totally lacking any "hefe"...repeated with the same keg and yeast cake but a blow off tube to start with and the hefe hit all the right notes.


i actually read your thread on that! interesting stuff. what would be your thoughts on 85f ale ferments at 5psi though?
 

odie

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i actually read your thread on that! interesting stuff. what would be your thoughts on 85f ale ferments at 5psi though?
I don't know. I have not done that many pressure ferments yet. But the hefe under pressure was a definite failure.

85' is 17' higher than my typical ale temp. But a very low psi setting might work well. I just don't know.
 
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