First time brewer - What have I done and what will I wind up with?

[hb2u]

Obligatory noob post - goofed up several steps along the way now I have questions; however, I am not proposing to dump the batch. I have always intended to ride it out to the bitter end.

OK here's what has happened so far - I got a 2.5 gallon kit a while back, and by the time I got around to rtying it out, the Hopped Malt extract that came with it had spoiled. (can was PLUMP with some black ooze o the edge)

When I went searching for a replacement can of extract, it became apparent that 5 gallon batches had become the norm (except for Mr. Beer).

Bought a can of Coopers hopped malt extract for a lager type beer, then stopped by the grocery store and bought a 5 gallon water bottle to use as a fermenter - Mistake #1. Found out later it was probably the wrong type of plastic and at 5 gallons, not really large enough for fermentation without a lot of mess from the initial yeast action.

Then I made mistake #2 - Cut back on the water to leave a little head space in the container, so I actually only have 4.75 gallons or so in the fermenter.

Mistake #3 - got conflicting information from reading the manual in the original brew kit and then the instructions that came with the Coopers Kit and then about 100 posts on this forum, and wound up pitching the yeast into wort that was about 95 degrees F. Did I mention that it was a pack of lager yeast that the guy at the HBShop sold me, not what came with the kit?
Put the fermenter in the basement and checked in about 8 hours - saw no action in the airlock, so I decided to pitch the yeast that came with the kit. (looking back I think this was premature) Since the wort had cooled to about 75 degrees, I poured some back into a pot and heated it to about 150 and then reintroduced it to the fermenter to acheive an overall temp of about 90 degrees. Mistakes 4, 5, and 6 I think.

Soaked the yeast in water of the same temperature for about 15 minutes and then pitched it into the malt, reinstalled the airlock and wwent to bed. Next morning it was apparent that I had been successful in getting fermentation to start and that I had left just enough headspace in the container to avoid a massive blow off of foam.

It's been sitting in the fermenter for 10 days now in the basement at a steady temperature of 65 degrees, with a sweater over the fermenter to keep it at an even temperature (and protect it from the lightbuld above it which is on for a total of about 3 minutes each day - silly, I know). Problem is that the airlock is still bubbling 1-2 times per minute.

No I don;t have a hydrometer - wasn;t included in the kit - so I don;t know how far along the fermentation is. The fermenter is sitting inside a cooler, so it's not directly on the cold floor, so the wort should be a uniform temperature throughout, so I don't think that the fermentation is in slow motion, but I also don;t think that I should add priming sugar and bottle something that's still offgassing for fear that I'll have bottles exploding.

I wondered if the reduced volume of the fermenting wort - even though it contained the full amount of extract along with about 2 lbs of table sugar as called for in the instructions along with the double dose of yeast, has resulted in an extended fermentation.

Any feedback is appreciated - especially if you think you can predict what characteristics extra yeast, lots of sugar and not enough wort might create.

Thanks.

HB

 

[BrookdaleBrew]

First, go here: http://www.howtobrew.com and learn as much as you can or buy the 3rd edition of the book for the most updated information.

As far as what you have now, just leave it alone for 3 weeks and then bottle per instructions, then leave it alone for 3 more weeks before popping a few in the fridge to see if they're ready. You will end up with beer.

 

[brettwasbtd]

Its probably a good thing to make all your mistakes at once! That way, the second brew will great! Without a hydrometer I would wait a minimum of 2-3 weeks, but longer won't hurt. Maybe a solid month?

Mistake 1 - One time in the wrong type of plastic is not going to kill you. Might want to look into buying the correct type for next time

Mistake 2 - Really not that big of a deal, will just mean that there is a little higher alcohol content.

Mistake 3 through 6 - Well, now you have fermentation! Generally you want to follow the procedures that are provided with the yeast you are using. General this involves rehydrating, or just pitching the dry yeast on top of the wort.

Any feedback is appreciated - especially if you think you can predict what characteristics extra yeast, lots of sugar and not enough wort might create.

Well extra yeast is good when you have more sugar! But all in all it should turn out ok... give it a good 3+ weeks and bottle it up. Then wait a minimum of 3 weeks (for carbonation) and try a bottle. Remember, Time heals ALL(most) with beer

 

[Cdreid]

Youre worrying too much. This isnt rocket science.

This is how you make wine. Put yeast in fruit juice.
This is how you make liquor. Put yeast in somethig sweet and distill.
This is how you make beer. Put yeast in something nonfruit.
People have been doing this for 200,000 years. They didnt have kits or forums or "gurus" telling them where they screwed up.
What WE call Beer is really fermented malt that has some hops etc and is carbonated.

1. You killed the hell out of the yeast. Mix in the yeast when everythings room temp. Thats all. No fancy thermometers blabblabla. Room temp. 60s-70's is perfect.
2. 90 degrees is too hot. Every yeast i know of will die FAST. Room temp.
3. I think what happened is you just had a few Uberyeast cells that managed to survive the mistreatment and slowly breed a colony. So your ferment probably really just started a few days ago.
4. Taste it. Ive tasted ricewine i screwed up on.. trust me after that beer that "didnt take" isnt scary!
5. Too much sugar can either kill yeast or give funky flavors from stressing it. I wouldnt worry about it with beer. Beer (despite these guys finickyness) doesnt have "delicate" tastes. Too much sugar can make the ferment take longer and/or stop it earlier.

Really this ist rocket science. You sound honestly like you're going to end up as one of the experts here. Who brew incredibly complex stuff and use very methodical and scientific methods. Heck from what ive read most of our "scientists" could take lessons from these guys.

 

[brettwasbtd]

1. You killed the hell out of the yeast. Mix in the yeast when everythings room temp. Thats all. No fancy thermometers blabblabla. Room temp. 60s-70's is perfect.
2. 90 degrees is too hot. Every yeast i know of will die FAST. Room temp.
3. I think what happened is you just had a few Uberyeast cells that managed to survive the mistreatment and slowly breed a colony. So your ferment probably really just started a few days ago.

Thats not entirely true.... If you take brookdales great advice and look at Palmers How to Brew, you will see that 90 degrees is not too hot. In Section 6.5, Palmer goes over the steps on rehydrating yeast, he suggests

Re-hydrating Dry Yeast
1. Put 1 cup of warm (95-105F, 35-40C) boiled water into a sanitized jar and stir in the yeast. Cover with Saran Wrap and wait 15 minutes.

So I think you are just fine there!

Really this ist rocket science. You sound honestly like you're going to end up as one of the experts here. Who brew incredibly complex stuff and use very methodical and scientific methods. Heck from what ive read most of our "scientists" could take lessons from these guys.

I agree that this is not Rocket Science. It is making beer and it is a hobby. Everyone has a different level of interest in their hobbies. If some of us want to get specific, so be it. If others just want to make beer, thats fine too! Just want to make sure we arent scaring a new brewer! It seems that hb2u has already taken a great interest in what they are doing with brewing, and I don't want discourage that.

 

[Minky]

1. You killed the hell out of the yeast. Mix in the yeast when everythings room temp. Thats all. No fancy thermometers blabblabla. Room temp. 60s-70's is perfect.
2. 90 degrees is too hot. Every yeast i know of will die FAST. Room temp.
3. I think what happened is you just had a few Uberyeast cells that managed to survive the mistreatment and slowly breed a colony. So your ferment probably really just started a few days ago.
.

The OP did not "kill the hell out of the yeast". While it's not the ideal temperature to pitch at, most beer yeasts can live up to 120 deg. or more. In fact dry yeast manufacturers recommend rehydrating yeast in water that is 100-105 deg.

 

[Skaggz]

Did I mention that it was a pack of lager yeast that the guy at the HBShop sold me, not what came with the kit?

If the first yeast (lager) that you pitched did take hold, then you may be looking at some funky off flavors from fermenting a lager yeast at such a high temperature.

 

[hb2u]

Thanks for the info guys. You won;t scare me off the boards or off brewing, I like drinking too much! I'm just trying to wrap my head around the consequences of the variances that I threw into the procedure.

The combination of yeasts will be interesting cause the kit, although it's called a lager, actually probably came with an ale yeast, since the directions mentioned nothing of low temperature fermentation which I thought was required for a true lager.

As far as on my way to being an expert, I seriously doubt it. My intent is to simply learn a few recipes that I like and brew often enough to have a few choices on hand. I really like the thought that I can control what's in the beer I drink.

I think that after another batch or two of straightforward beer, my interest lies in recreating historic brews from the time around the american revolution.

We'll see how far I get with that.....

Thanks again - great forum you have here, glad I found it.

HB

 

[Hockeyhunter99]

sounds like you wrote it all down. if it turns out great then you didn't screw up and you will have the details written down to repeat it. get down to the basics and work you r way up is a great idea. learn to walk before running the marathon.

 

[Cdreid]

The OP did not "kill the hell out of the yeast". While it's not the ideal temperature to pitch at, most beer yeasts can live up to 120 deg. or more. In fact dry yeast manufacturers recommend rehydrating yeast in water that is 100-105 deg.

The reasons i say this are due mostly to what the yeast producers state and according to posts in this very forum where people got the temp to high and had their ferments stick. And considering that the main variable different than most successful ferments was a high temperature it certainly seems that would be it. I have no doubt about what the other poster said being true and ive seen directions for SOME yeasts being pitched hot. But that doesnt mean all of them by any means.

 

[Skaggz]

my interest lies in recreating historic brews from the time around the american revolution.

If you're really interested in history and brewing, I suggest you check out the Classic Beer Style Series of books. There is one book for each style. I think 16 total. Each book goes deeply into the history of it's respective style. They also include many recipes that resemble how they were traditionally brewed. I have the Porter book and the Kölsch book. IIRC, George Washington used to brew a mean porter. Even Adolf Coors ran a bottling plant that bottled porter before he started brewing. Very interesting reads.

 

[Frodo]

My intent is to simply learn a few recipes that I like and brew often enough to have a few choices on hand. I really like the thought that I can control what's in the beer I drink.

Well it sounds like you don't expect this to become an obsession... GOOD LUCK!

 

[Minky]

The reasons i say this are due mostly to what the yeast producers state and according to posts in this very forum where people got the temp to high and had their ferments stick. And considering that the main variable different than most successful ferments was a high temperature it certainly seems that would be it. I have no doubt about what the other poster said being true and ive seen directions for SOME yeasts being pitched hot. But that doesnt mean all of them by any means.

I'm not sure what you're trying to tell me, Cdreid. You told the OP that he killed off most of his yeast and that all the yeasts you knew of would die "FAST" at 90 deg. You then suggested that his fermentation probably just started due to a few hardy "Uberyeast" cells, but he said he had a healthy fermentation the next morning.

You state that you "have no doubt about what the other poster said being true". If you mean brettwasbtd's post, I essentially said the same thing about yeast temps. I wouldn't have even posted had his post been on the screen at the time (check the times on our posts).

I'm sorry if I rubbed you the wrong way, but I stand by what I said.

 

[Cdreid]

You didnt rub me the wrong way sorry if i gave you that impression. This is an amazinglyfriendly forum and i learn every time i come here.

All i was really trying to say is i think he overstressed or killed his yeast. We probably should have asked what yeast it was. Some die at a temperature whree others become hardy. I just started some wine with ec-1118 (experiment) and am used to keeping things in the 70's. I had to remind myself this yeast will handle up to 90 degrees as a working temperature with (apparently) no problems

 

[BigJerk]

Here's what I would do, go out and get yourself a second fermenter (and hydrometer), start your second second batch, and let the first one age in the primary for 4-6 weeks to help clean up some of the off flavors. Then bottle and age at least 3 weeks. drink one and age some more, by then your second will be done and you can compare. I've made a few very off beers that were cured by time. I've only had one that never ended up being good (after a year it was only ok) and I've never had anything I considered undrinkable. I don't think you made any mistake that dozens of us here on the boards haven't made (in some cases many times) before. It's all a learning experience, you just happen to have a more educational batch than some. Keep it up and you'll be amazed with what your next few batches taste like!