First Sour Beer Attempt Advice Needed

[Izzie1701]

Ok so I did it and I tried and also had my wife try a lambic beer last week and we both loved it. Downside is it was over $10 a bottle. So now its time for me to attempt my first sour beer but I am lost and confused. I need some advice from people that have done it before. I have done a ton of searches and have the following questions as it seemed to be a toss up when I tried searches

1.) I have decided I am going to go down the route of kettle or mash souring. Any preferences. I was going to pitch Lacto. A few question I had on this are - boil prior to pitching Lacto? When blanketing with CO2 do I just pump some CO2 over the wort and then cover with plastic wrap or can I just cover with the lid if I blanket with CO2?
2.) Can lacto be slanted?
3.) Looking do do a cherry lambic type beer similar to Kriek Boon. Next fall want to try the same recipe with Choke Cherries when there in season in place of the cherry. Want something with a little sweetness but not much. Any one have a recipe thats proven and sounds like this
4.) Best yeast strain fo a beer like the above?
5.) Add fruit in secondary?
6.) When they say old hops do they literally mean any type of hop that is old and has been sitting out for awhile?

Thanks in advance

 

[55x11]

Ok so I did it and I tried and also had my wife try a lambic beer last week and we both loved it. Downside is it was over $10 a bottle. So now its time for me to attempt my first sour beer but I am lost and confused. I need some advice from people that have done it before. I have done a ton of searches and have the following questions as it seemed to be a toss up when I tried searches

1.) I have decided I am going to go down the route of kettle or mash souring. Any preferences. I was going to pitch Lacto. A few question I had on this are - boil prior to pitching Lacto? When blanketing with CO2 do I just pump some CO2 over the wort and then cover with plastic wrap or can I just cover with the lid if I blanket with CO2?
2.) Can lacto be slanted?
3.) Looking do do a cherry lambic type beer similar to Kriek Boon. Next fall want to try the same recipe with Choke Cherries when there in season in place of the cherry. Want something with a little sweetness but not much. Any one have a recipe thats proven and sounds like this
4.) Best yeast strain fo a beer like the above?
5.) Add fruit in secondary?
6.) When they say old hops do they literally mean any type of hop that is old and has been sitting out for awhile?

Thanks in advance

All your questions and more answered here:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/1938469119/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

 

[porterpounder]

Mash or kettle souring are not going to give you even close to the complexity of a lambic. Works well for Berlinner Weisse or hopped sours, but for lambic style sours you're going to have to put in the effort and time to wait it out. Brew up a batch of 60% wheat, 40% pilsner malt to 1.048, pitch a lambic blend in primary and wait it our for 12-24 months. At that point transfer it onto a bed of fruit (for cherries 10 lbs/5 gal will give you a solid fruit presence) and wait another 2-3 months. Bottle condition or force carb and serve it up. Old hops means any variety, but usually a low-alpha noble-type that has been sitting around for 3 years.

 

[Aristotelian]

Also check out the Milk the Funk Facebook group/wiki. Read the Wiki first, they do not like helping newbies. What you are describing is pretty much their Berliner Weisse with some fruit added to secondary. Sounds good to me.

http://www.milkthefunk.com/wiki/Berliner_Weissbier

 

[sweetcell]

Mash or kettle souring are not going to give you even close to the complexity of a lambic. Works well for Berlinner Weisse or hopped sours, but for lambic style sours you're going to have to put in the effort and time to wait it out. Brew up a batch of 60% wheat, 40% pilsner malt to 1.048, pitch a lambic blend in primary and wait it our for 12-24 months. At that point transfer it onto a bed of fruit (for cherries 10 lbs/5 gal will give you a solid fruit presence) and wait another 2-3 months. Bottle condition or force carb and serve it up. Old hops means any variety, but usually a low-alpha noble-type that has been sitting around for 3 years.

^ this.

you can't get the complexity of a lambic from a kettle sour. however quick soured beers can be great in their own right. get yourself some berliners to try, to see what you're lining yourself up for. note that kettle sours, while faster, have their own set of potential problems. management of enteric bacteria is something that should be kept in mind.

boil prior to pitching Lacto? When blanketing with CO2 do I just pump some CO2 over the wort and then cover with plastic wrap or can I just cover with the lid if I blanket with CO2?

it is recommended that you boil prior to pitching lacto, or at least heat the wort up to pasteurizing temps (170*F should do it) to kill off anything in there, so that your pitched lacto is the dominant microbe.

4.) Best yeast strain fo a beer like the above?

assuming you're going for a true, long-aged sour, i'd get a bug mix from white labs or wyeast and add dregs from commercial sours. or, get a bug mix from one of the new yeast manufacturers like the yeast bay.

5.) Add fruit in secondary?

yes, at the end. let the beer age out until ready, then add fruit for a month or two.

6.) When they say old hops do they literally mean any type of hop that is old and has been sitting out for awhile?

typically 2-3 years old, aged at ambient temps.

 

[tobbias]

If you want a lambic go with following post above and put aside one every year. You can blend them as the years pass by and add the the cherries along the way and/or towards the end 1-3 months before you bottle
good luck and again lambics take a long time

 

[TooDogly]

Ok so I did it and I tried and also had my wife try a lambic beer last week and we both loved it. Downside is it was over $10 a bottle.

That's the downside of sours, they take a long time to make and thus are priced accordingly.

 

[beergolf]

Brewing sours is easy, it just takes patience ( which is difficult).

If you are interested in. brewing sours then I would highly recommend the American Sour Beers book. A lot of great info in there.

Just jump in and do it. The sour blends by White Labs and Wyeast are pretty tame the first round, but you can suppliment them with dregs from some commercial sours to help them sour more. I have 5 dedicated carboys for sours and brew one about every two to three months. That way if one needs more time I can just let it age. I usually do not even taste them until a year, then decide if they need more time or would benefit from fruit.

enjoy

 

[worlddivides]

You could use kettle souring, mash souring, or sour worting to make a "cherry Berliner Weisse" or a "cherry Gose," but a "cherry lambic" / "Kriek" is impossible with that kind of a method. The main reason is the complexity, but it also boils down to lambics being not simply made from Lactobacillus and Saccharomyces but also by Pediococcus and Brettanomyces (among many other microorganisms). Also, in addition to that, time is a huge factor in the production of lambics. You can make "quick sours," but you can't make "quick lambics."

That said, most Berliner Weisses just have a fruit syrup (usually a raspberry or woodruff syrup) added at the time it's druk, but I have seen a few that had fruits added during fermentation.

 

[TooDogly]

I was just on Imperial Yeast's website and they sell a strain that might be up your alley. This is from their website, http://www.imperialyeast.com/organic-yeast-strains/

F08 Sour Batch Kidz

Sour Batch Kidz is a blend of low attenuating Belgian saison yeast, Lactobacillus, and two Brettanomyces yeast strains. This blend is great for emulating lambics, Flanders reds, sour farmhouse ales and any other brew you would like to funk up.

Temp: 68-76F, 20-24 // Flocculation: Low // Attenuation: 80%+

 

[Snubnoze707]

If you want a lambic go with following post above and put aside one every year. You can blend them as the years pass by and add the the cherries along the way and/or towards the end 1-3 months before you bottle
good luck and again lambics take a long time

Blending vintages are necessary when making something like a Gueuze, but even then a mixed culture fermentation isn't a Lambic. That requires spontaneous fermentation, barrel aging, and even aspects like turbid mash and aged hops. Even then, still not a Lambic if not brewed in Belgium. Jean Van Roy recently stamped the approval for Jester King to use "Methodé Gueuze" however.

 

[kingwood-kid]

Go buy a few bottles of sours that have live dregs. Jolly Pumpkin works really well but there's so many out there. Pour into a glass, don't drink from the bottle. Anything you like, prop up the dregs in a weak starter. Brew a 1.040ish pale wort with less than 10 IBUs, ferment with saison yeast, then add the dregs. Wait a few months and you'll have a fairly complex sour.

 

[Izzie1701]

Thanks for all the advise so far. Think I'm going to try a hose for my first slut attempt that I kettle sour. Here in Canada it is very hard to find sours. We have the odd one but we don't have a selection like you in the states. Had one on tap that was kettle soured, raspberry, and really liked it then found one sour lambic that was $10 a bottle and loved that too. Other then that I rarely see any and I have been looking. I think I'll just have to make them and try them. Darn more beer to make and drink.

 

[beergolf]

Think I'm going to try a hose for my first slut attempt

That should be interesting. hahahahaha

 

[Izzie1701]

That should be interesting. hahahahaha

Hahaha bloody auto correct. GOSE for my first SOUR attempt.

 

[Morrey]

I was just on Imperial Yeast's website and they sell a strain that might be up your alley. This is from their website, http://www.imperialyeast.com/organic-yeast-strains/

F08 Sour Batch Kidz

Sour Batch Kidz is a blend of low attenuating Belgian saison yeast, Lactobacillus, and two Brettanomyces yeast strains. This blend is great for emulating lambics, Flanders reds, sour farmhouse ales and any other brew you would like to funk up.

Temp: 68-76F, 20-24 // Flocculation: Low // Attenuation: 80%+

Very interesting!!! Has anyone actually tried this blend to report back? Wonder what the G2G is for this yeast blend?