First Saison with WLP565

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ZeMadMonkey

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Tonight I just tapped my first Saison brewed with WLP565. I have heard and read many a horror stories about using this yeast. So much so, that I was nervous to try and use this yeast with a Saison, I have been using WY3711 French Saison for my Saisons, which still came out wonderful. WY3711 French Saison is great yeast.

So I brewed my first Saison with the infamous WLP565 yeast. As this was my first time I wasn't getting complicated, I brewed a really basic Saison malt bill and didn't include any spices or citrus zest.

I was incredibly worried about fermenting and was ready for a fight. My fermentation cycle was pitch as 65f and let it freerise it 67f and hold it for 48 hours. After those 48 hours I let it freerise. Over the next few days it rose up to ~80f and fermented from 1.053 -> 1.006. I was going for a drinkable summer Saison, not looking for high alcohol.

WLP565 is a beast if you treat it right. I was surprised at how quickly it fermented down to 1.006.

It has tons of Saison flavor and aroma. That being said, I would love to see if I hold it at 67 for 24 hours then let it free rise up to 80 and use a heating pad to push it to like 84f-86f.

I had read so many horror stories about stalling mid fermentation, I was ready to rouse and raise temperatures. My fermentation was smooth and completed with zero stalling.

I have read lots of literature of posts about pitching hot and letting it freerise to even hotter temperatures. After reviewing Brewing Classic Styles and Experimental Homebrewing (by Denny Conn and Drew Beechum) I decided to go with the more restrained fermentation profile for this Saison, that both books preached. I was not disappointed, it was a super fun yeast to brew with and I am very happy with the results.

I have attached a picture of my first pour from the keg after a week or carbonation at 19PSI.

CAM00194.jpg
 
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ZeMadMonkey

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My Recipe is as follows

75% Pilsner
15% Wheat
10% Honey

It has an OG of 1.053 and fermented down to 1.006.

I mashed at 148f for 90 min.

My Hop Schedule

East Kent Goldings (UK) 1.00 oz at 60 min
East Kent Goldings (UK) .50 oz at 20 min
East Kent Goldings (UK) 1.00 at 10 min

My water, I built from distilled water with the additions of water salts

Mash
1.9g Gypsum
1.7g Epsom Salt
2.4g Calcium Chloride

Boil
1.9g Gypsum
1.7g Epsom Salt
2.4g Calcium Chloride
 
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ZeMadMonkey

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Oh and I did at 1.0 ml of Lactic Acid to the Mash
 

cyanmonkey

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No wonder it fermented that low what at 148 and 10% honey. [emoji6]

I have my tank 7 clone going with 3711 right now. Took it from 1.068 to 1.006 in 5 days. Was thinking about using one of those pesky strains...next time!
 
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ZeMadMonkey

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The honey I added, I boiled it until it changed color and then added it to the brew at whirpool while the brew was chilling.
 
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ZeMadMonkey

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No wonder it fermented that low what at 148 and 10% honey. [emoji6]

I have my tank 7 clone going with 3711 right now. Took it from 1.068 to 1.006 in 5 days. Was thinking about using one of those pesky strains...next time!
Right on cyanmonkey, my brother from another mother...lol

Yeah, I was freaked out and hesitant about using WLP565 but it is an awesome yeast and adds a ton to your brew, definitely check it out and try it out.
 
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ZeMadMonkey

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You boiled the honey as is?
Yes I bought some local honey from WholeFoods and boiled it until it darkened and after it darkened, I turned the heat off. Right when I started to chill my wort I poured the honey in letting it become part of the whirlpool.
 

tgmartin000

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Damn! I've had mine sitting at 90 for 3 weeks now. Add of last night, it was still at 1.024. Booo!

I'm going to back it off to 80 and give 'er another month.
 

Tippsy-Turvy

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I'm just about to bottle my first Saison with the WLP565. Pitched warm at ~72 and free-rose to ~82 over several days. Attenuation was much higher than Brewer's Friend had predicted and after exactly a month the FG hit 1.008. Given this batch was also my first decoction mash the overall efficiency was WAY more efficient than I had budgeted. ABV is ~6.6% when I had targeted ~5.5%!

How clean were everyone's batches? I found my batch had greyish stuff floating on the surface. Highly likely it's an infection but the sample tasted fine (perhaps a little dry and less malty than hoped). Wondering if this surface material should be expected with the 565s.
 
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ZeMadMonkey

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I'm just about to bottle my first Saison with the WLP565. Pitched warm at ~72 and free-rose to ~82 over several days. Attenuation was much higher than Brewer's Friend had predicted and after exactly a month the FG hit 1.008. Given this batch was also my first decoction mash the overall efficiency was WAY more efficient than I had budgeted. ABV is ~6.6% when I had targeted ~5.5%!

How clean were everyone's batches? I found my batch had greyish stuff floating on the surface. Highly likely it's an infection but the sample tasted fine (perhaps a little dry and less malty than hoped). Wondering if this surface material should be expected with the 565s.
I can't say I had anything weird or greyish stuff on the surface.
 
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ZeMadMonkey

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Damn! I've had mine sitting at 90 for 3 weeks now. Add of last night, it was still at 1.024. Booo!

I'm going to back it off to 80 and give 'er another month.
I read and heard the ramp up from high 60s to low 70s up to 80s is the key, starting it out too hot leads to fusel alcohols and stalling
 
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ZeMadMonkey

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Damn! I've had mine sitting at 90 for 3 weeks now. Add of last night, it was still at 1.024. Booo!

I'm going to back it off to 80 and give 'er another month.
Also, I read that because this yeast is supposedly partly from a red wine yeast it is sensitive to pressure as well. I fermented mine with a regular blow-off tube.

From Experimental Homebrewing they say WLP565 needs proper pitching rate, heat, and sensitive to pressure. I hit mine with 60 secs of 02 at 1 liter per minute.
 
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ZeMadMonkey

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Damn! I've had mine sitting at 90 for 3 weeks now. Add of last night, it was still at 1.024. Booo!

I'm going to back it off to 80 and give 'er another month.
Though, this is one of those yeasts I think you can play with and enjoy a wide range of fermentation profiles to create different flavor profiles.
 

tgmartin000

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I read and heard the ramp up from high 60s to low 70s up to 80s is the key, starting it out too hot leads to fusel alcohols and stalling
That's what I did. Held at 68 for about 24 hours, then let it free rise, and applied heat to get it into the 90's.
 

tgmartin000

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Also, I read that because this yeast is supposedly partly from a red wine yeast it is sensitive to pressure as well. I fermented mine with a regular blow-off tube.

From Experimental Homebrewing they say WLP565 needs proper pitching rate, heat, and sensitive to pressure. I hit mine with 60 secs of 02 at 1 liter per minute.
Did that, too. Just used tin foil over the carboy, didn't even have an airlock on it.

When it was actively fermenting, I could actually feel a breeze blowing up through the carboy neck.

What I did NOT do, was pitch or aerate properly. I pitched at about 0.6 million cells/mL, and aerated for 30 sec.
 

cyanmonkey

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Did that, too. Just used tin foil over the carboy, didn't even have an airlock on it.



When it was actively fermenting, I could actually feel a breeze blowing up through the carboy neck.



What I did NOT do, was pitch or aerate properly. I pitched at about 0.6 million cells/mL, and aerated for 30 sec.

I'm curious how that will influence the phenolic character. I've considered under pitching high gravity Belgians to see if it would highlight them. Although it might be more successful with something like 3711 or 3724 that doesn't need as much help to chew through everything.
 

Sailingeric

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I have had brewed two batches and have a third going now with this yeast have had no problems stalling or doing anything funky. Pitch it, next day I use my wife's kombucha heating strip taped to the side of the bucket and it heats it to about 75 degrees but the yeast will crank it up to about 85 for a couple days before dropping back down. I leave it on the heat for a couple weeks, bottle and enjoy :tank:
 

tgmartin000

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I'm curious how that will influence the phenolic character. I've considered under pitching high gravity Belgians to see if it would highlight them. Although it might be more successful with something like 3711 or 3724 that doesn't need as much help to chew through everything.
That's exactly why I did it. A lot of my belgian beers, although really good, are still a little too "clean" for what I'm going for. I've heard underpitching and underaerating will create more esters and phenolics.

I also am now fermenting a saison with 3711 that I pitched at about 0.75 million cells/mL, and aerated for 30 sec. Since this yeast is such a beast, I'm not too worried about attenuation on it.

But the 565 saison that is slowly working it's way down tastes fantastic, so far. Hopefully it'll finish before labor day!
 
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ZeMadMonkey

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***UPDATE***

I just tapped my second Saison I brewed with WLP565, and it is amazing. I definitely think the holding it at ~67 for two days and ramping it up to ~80F is the key. I haven't experienced a stall in fermentation yet and still have all the wonderful funk and phenolics you'd expect from a Saison Yeast.

This recipe was actual from Radical Brewing by Randy Mosher, it was his Saisoon Buffoon. It tastes spectacular and love fermenting it with WLP565. The piloncillo definitely added a depth to the Saison I did not have i the previous Saison that using straight honey, in addition to the malt bill. FYI this recipe also use citrus zest, Grains of Paradise, and Coriander. I crushed all the spices in a mortal & pestle before adding it as a flame out addition to the wort. I did a spice rest of 15 min before chilling the wort.
 

tgmartin000

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So I backed the ferment temp off on mine, down to 88, and after about 6 weeks it attenuated down to 1.004. It's cold crashing now, and I'm kegging it today.

So what everyone said is true. ..Patience, time, and temp.
 

jplowe

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I pitched wlp565 from a 2 day 1.5 L starter at roughly 70 degrees for a week. First 3 days bubbles out of air lock and then stopped. I just put on my brew belt and with a little heat i'm getting more activity out of the air lock 5 days after pitching. I will add Light candy sugar per recipe on Thursday and i'm hoping the yeast will fire up with the brew belt and I won't be drinking a cloyingly sweet saison after a couple of weeks more of fermenting.
 

McKnuckle

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I'm fermenting my first Saison, and my first use of WLP565, right now. I should have done better homework on this yeast before I started...

I pitched at 68F, and it sat for about 24 hours with no activity whatsoever. The wort was almost totally clear with compacted break material on the bottom. So I put a heating pad under the fermenter, set it to HIGH, and went to bed. At 6 AM the next morning, the yeast was going nuts. And the temperature? 95 freaking degrees! Ugh.

Well, I've since read that many people do ferment it that high. But they don't typically use such a rapid ramp up. So I hope I didn't ruin the batch. I turned off the heating pad, and I'm letting it just coast down to whereever it wants to go - right now it's at 85F about nine hours after the spike. The room is 68F.

If this thread is still kicking around when I have a verdict, I'll post an update on whether it ends up a hot mess or not.
 

m00ps

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I'm fermenting my first Saison, and my first use of WLP565, right now. I should have done better homework on this yeast before I started...

I pitched at 68F, and it sat for about 24 hours with no activity whatsoever. The wort was almost totally clear with compacted break material on the bottom. So I put a heating pad under the fermenter, set it to HIGH, and went to bed. At 6 AM the next morning, the yeast was going nuts. And the temperature? 95 freaking degrees! Ugh.

Well, I've since read that many people do ferment it that high. But they don't typically use such a rapid ramp up. So I hope I didn't ruin the batch. I turned off the heating pad, and I'm letting it just coast down to whereever it wants to go - right now it's at 85F about nine hours after the spike. The room is 68F.

If this thread is still kicking around when I have a verdict, I'll post an update on whether it ends up a hot mess or not.
You'll be fine, trust me, this yeast likes it WARM. Youll get a great peppery fruity character from it at those temps. Just dont let it drop too much or it could stall. I ramp mine like 24 hrs after I see activity and leave it in the 90s for at least 10 days.

So i would turn that pad back on ASAP. The one time I had a saison that tasted medicinal and band-aid like was when I swung up and down with the fermentation temp
 

cyanmonkey

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You'll be fine, trust me, this yeast likes it WARM. Youll get a great peppery fruity character from it at those temps. Just dont let it drop too much or it could stall. I ramp mine like 24 hrs after I see activity and leave it in the 90s for at least 10 days.

So i would turn that pad back on ASAP. The one time I had a saison that tasted medicinal and band-aid like was when I swung up and down with the fermentation temp

I've been meaning to ask, is there no danger of fusels fermenting so high? I've done a few saisons but I've generally started fermentation around 68 and bumped up to 70-72. I've been happy with the flavor for the most part, but (at least with 3711) I've been getting more floral citrus rather than spicy pepper.
 

McKnuckle

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Okay, it coasted from 95 to 76 after a full day (18 hrs). I just put the heating pad back under it with a layer of towel as a buffer, and set the pad to LOW. I'd rather just keep it steady or slightly warmer now, not try to crank it back up.

Today I had to scoop krausen several times as it overflowed the fermenter. What a pain. Eventually it settled down and it continues to bubble steadily, if not violently.
 

m00ps

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I've been meaning to ask, is there no danger of fusels fermenting so high? I've done a few saisons but I've generally started fermentation around 68 and bumped up to 70-72. I've been happy with the flavor for the most part, but (at least with 3711) I've been getting more floral citrus rather than spicy pepper.
There is, and isnt. Let me explain, I've ramped up the last 8 saisons I've made (all different strains) to 90F about 24hr after pitching. You can go as high as you want with no fusels whatsoever. However, if you swing back down and have to go back up, the yeast may go dormant or get stressed. The only time I had a band-aid tasting saison was when it swung between 70 and 80 a few times. Leave it at the highest temp you want for like a week to let it finish most of the fermentation. then you can cool it down to room temp and let it sit for a day or two before bottling
 

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I used 565 for a saison 5 weeks ago and planned on just letting it do whatever it wanted temperature-wise. I pitched a 2 liter starter with the wort at 70 and left it alone. It started fast. Then we had a cold spell and the internal wort temperature dropped to 68. The yeast just kept chugging away. My original gravity was 1.052. At the end of two weeks at 68 degrees, my gravity was 1.006. One week later, it was still at 1.006, so I kegged it. I've been naturally carbonating it in the keg and will try it out this weekend. However, I can say that without ramping up the termperature, it did not stall out and the sample I took when kegging tasted great.
 

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I wonder if anyone else has experienced this:

During active primary, I top-cropped some krausen to save it from overflowing my fermenter. The yeast had a very gooey consistency - it dribbled "mouse tails" like chocolate syrup and had to be scooped carefully.

Now that part is fine; krausen is yeast and schmutz, after all.

But a week later, fermentation is basically at a snail's pace now, and I went to take a gravity reading. The beer itself has a similar consistency. It's goo, and it's opaque from top to bottom. I didn't bother filling the hydrometer tube once I saw the consistency. And the cropped yeast that I put in the fridge days ago has not cleared, either.

In nearly 40 batches, I haven't encountered this. But then, I've never fermented anything at over 90º either! Thoughts?
 

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Here is my saison. Fermented about 75ish. Simple extract recipe, 8 pounds extra light lme 2 pounds wheat lme, 1 pound crystal 10, 1 pound carafoam, .25 pound honey malt, all stepped for about 20 min, 1 oz saaz at 60, 1 oz cascade @ 30 and .25 oz @ 10.
 

tgmartin000

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I wonder if anyone else has experienced this:

During active primary, I top-cropped some krausen to save it from overflowing my fermenter. The yeast had a very gooey consistency - it dribbled "mouse tails" like chocolate syrup and had to be scooped carefully.

Now that part is fine; krausen is yeast and schmutz, after all.

But a week later, fermentation is basically at a snail's pace now, and I went to take a gravity reading. The beer itself has a similar consistency. It's goo, and it's opaque from top to bottom. I didn't bother filling the hydrometer tube once I saw the consistency. And the cropped yeast that I put in the fridge days ago has not cleared, either.

In nearly 40 batches, I haven't encountered this. But then, I've never fermented anything at over 90º either! Thoughts?
In my experience, this yeast stays in suspension a while while it finishes up. After a few weeks it'll cLear up.
 
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