First Lager

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Hex23

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I'm still pretty new to brewing ... going to start my 5th batch as a lager. Based on the great info I've gleaned from this site I've been doing long (4 wk) primaries w/ no secondary - and with great results. Do the same rules apply to lagers? Is it safe to primary and lager in the same vessel?
 
It's probably safe, but I wouldn't do it. In my opinion, lagers are much more delicately flavored, and "cleaner", and I get it off of the primary yeast cake right after the diacetyl rest. I don't think keeping the beer on a yeast cake for 3-4 months is good practice although it may not ruin the beer.

I primary at 50 degrees for about 10 days, then do a diacetyl rest for 48 hours at 60 degrees (assuming the beer is about finished in the primary- you'd have to check the SG). Then, I rack after the diacetly rest and get ready for lagering. I lager for one week for each 8-10 points of OG, so for a 1.064 lager, I'll lager about 8 weeks. I like to lager at 34 degrees, as I find that it gives the smoothest flavor.
 
. . . . . Is it safe to primary and lager in the same vessel?

If everything else is done correctly it is probably "safe", timing and a few other things come into the scene when lagering. The biggest problem with it would be autolysis.

If you haven't already, You may want to read chapter 10 in Palmers book where in 10.3 he states,

"Luckily, the propensity of yeast to autolyze is decreased by a decrease in activity and a decrease in total yeast mass. What this means to a brewer is that racking to a secondary fermenter to get the beer off the dead yeast and lowering the temperature for the long cold storage allows the beer to condition without much risk of autolysis. At a minimum, a beer that has experienced autolysis will have a burnt rubber taste and smell and will probably be undrinkable. At worst it will be unapproachable.

As a final note on this subject, I should mention that by brewing with healthy yeast in a well-prepared wort, many experienced brewers, myself included, have been able to leave a beer in the primary fermenter for several months without any evidence of autolysis. Autolysis is not inevitable, but it is lurking."

I still secondary my lagers after diacetyl rest, but to each his own, whatever works for you.

Palmers Chapter 10: http://www.howtobrew.com/section1/chapter10.html

Keep on brewing my friends:mug:
 
Guys - thanks a bunch for the specific advice. Looks like I'll probably use a secondary as I'm not too interested in ruining my first lager! I have a 5Gal BB and a 6.5 gal glass carboy. Since I'd rather avoid any oxidation, I'll primary in the BB and lager in the glass. Kind of wish the volumes were reversed since last time I primary'd in the BB I had major blow-off - was using WY1007 and probably too high temp. Maybe it's time to get another 6.5 gal plastic bucket! Geez this hobby is expensive!
 
. . . . Kind of wish the volumes were reversed since last time I primary'd in the BB I had major blow-off - was using WY1007 and probably too high temp. Maybe it's time to get another 6.5 gal plastic bucket! Geez this hobby is expensive!

I know what you mean, I've pretty much stopped using the BBs for beer because of this. The usually have some sort of wine in them though.:rockin:
 
My beer has been in primary for 12 days now and I measured SG at 1.020. OG was 1.063. It looks like most krausen has dropped - maybe 25% of the surface is totally free of bubbles. This puts me at about 67%AA and I'm using the Wyeast Oktoberfest blend (73-77%). It actually tasted great. I don't notice any buttery tastes, but I'm not positive I would know what diacetly tastes like. I don't see anywhere saying that D-Rest is recommended for this yeast. Should I keep measuring SG, do a D-rest to lower more gravity points, or maybe just start dropping temps to lager?
 
My beer has been in primary for 12 days now and I measured SG at 1.020. OG was 1.063. It looks like most krausen has dropped - maybe 25% of the surface is totally free of bubbles. This puts me at about 67%AA and I'm using the Wyeast Oktoberfest blend (73-77%). It actually tasted great. I don't notice any buttery tastes, but I'm not positive I would know what diacetly tastes like. I don't see anywhere saying that D-Rest is recommended for this yeast. Should I keep measuring SG, do a D-rest to lower more gravity points, or maybe just start dropping temps to lager?

I'd probably just go ahead and do the diactyl rest now. It certainly can't hurt, and will take care of any diacetyl present. You dont' want to start dropping the temperature until the beer is finished! Definitely don't do that.
 
Thanks Yooper. I think you answered the other part of my question too ... I guess not much fermentation and SG dropping occurs at those cold temps.
 
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