First Lager - Need help with Ferm Schedule

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dd601

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Hey, I'm brewing my first Lager tonight. I'm going to use a Yuengling clone recipe and use the WLP860 Munich Helles as my yeast. I'll be doing a 5 gallon batch. The opt ferm temp for for the yeast is 48-52 deg. Can you give me any kind of idea of a ferm schedule. I'm seeing and hearing a bunch of different ones for lagers and I figured it might be good to ask
 
At that temperature I typically ferment for 14 days. I then take the temperature up to about 60-62 for another 7 days for a diacetyl rest.
I expect I could get away with both of those periods being a little shorter but I do all my beer stuff on the weekends and it works out great that way.
I have done this on 8 different lager batches.
 
+ 2 on the above schedule. Enjoy your first lager and be patient. Give it at least four to six weeks at lagering before bottling unless you'll be lagering in the keg. Then still wait four to six weeks.
 
Thanks for the info guys. I brewed last night, so I'll give that schedule a try.
 
+ 2 on the above schedule. Enjoy your first lager and be patient. Give it at least four to six weeks at lagering before bottling unless you'll be lagering in the keg. Then still wait four to six weeks.

Not necessary.

I wait until the chill haze has dropped clear. There doesn't need to be some arbitrary time that one waits until their beer is ready to drink. I typically bottle lagers after 10 days or so, carb for two weeks, week or so in the fridge before they start to clear up and I can see through the bottle clearly.
 
Not necessary.

I wait until the chill haze has dropped clear. There doesn't need to be some arbitrary time that one waits until their beer is ready to drink. I typically bottle lagers after 10 days or so, carb for two weeks, week or so in the fridge before they start to clear up and I can see through the bottle clearly.

Correct. Don't want to mislead anyone. This is just what works for me. :mug:
 
I must be impatient. I set my temp at 51 for 1 week, raise it to 61 for 2 days, drop it back down to 51 for 5 days, then drop it to 35 for 2 days then keg it at 45. Seems to work for me. ;)
 
Not necessary.

I wait until the chill haze has dropped clear. There doesn't need to be some arbitrary time that one waits until their beer is ready to drink. I typically bottle lagers after 10 days or so, carb for two weeks, week or so in the fridge before they start to clear up and I can see through the bottle clearly.


Is the point of lagering to clear the beer of the haze? I have been trying to find the answer to this. I have not found any other reason to lager a lager...and so not sure why to spend the time lagering...

Bottle conditioning I get, but not lagering:eek:
 
Is the point of lagering to clear the beer of the haze? I have been trying to find the answer to this. I have not found any other reason to lager a lager...and so not sure why to spend the time lagering...

Bottle conditioning I get, but not lagering:eek:

Essentially, yes. With a proper pitch and good fermentation techniques, i.e. oxygen, temp control, a typical lager doesn't take much longer than an ale.

However, cloudiness and haze is usually more tolerated with ales, so I do like to "lager" for a week or two like I mentioned, so I'm serving a bright, clear and fine beaded beer. I keep all of my beer in cold storage, so essentially all of my beers are lagered or cold-conditioned, which is a better term.
 
Any disadvantage to chilling to 31F to accelerate the haze formation and precipitation? The solubility of the haze proteins greatly decreases even from 40f to 32f, which should speed the clearing.
 
Any disadvantage to chilling to 31F to accelerate the haze formation and precipitation? The solubility of the haze proteins greatly decreases even from 40f to 32f, which should speed the clearing.

None. Beer freezes a couple of degrees lower than water, I shoot for around freezing. Yet, I remember a pale ale that cleared up nicely in a week that had to be chilling more than 40. Malt dependent I guess.
 
Well it's been in primary for 10 days now at 48 deg. We check the gravity and it's actually at the calculated FG now, so we moved it to diacetyl rest now at 60 deg. I left in the primary carboy. Should I have moved it off of the yeast?
 
No, the yeast are the mechanism for diacetyl reduction. Did you taste it? You might not need a diacetyl rest....
 
Make sure that you pitch either at or slightly below your target fermentation temps. This will reduce your odds of diacetyl and other off-flavors.
 
Is the point of lagering to clear the beer of the haze? I have been trying to find the answer to this. I have not found any other reason to lager a lager...and so not sure why to spend the time lagering...

Bottle conditioning I get, but not lagering:eek:

Lagers do clear over this extended time but a lager yeast functions best at lower temps (vs an Ale yeast) and produce fewer flavor compounds so you get that nice clean lager taste. Lower temp and thus slower ferms take more time. Time makes a big difference in the taste of a Lager...not just the clarity.

Example: like many homebrewers I have trouble staying out of my brew as it is conditioning...gotta sample for testing purposes ya know...many times we have gotten into a lager a couple of weeks early....those "samples" are good but going the distance makes a noticeable difference in taste.

Also, (and there is some debate on this subject) allowing the lager to carbonate at relatively low pressures over a long period of time aparently helps form those nice tiny champaigne like bubbles that go on forever in a good Pils. There is a device called a "spunding valve" (sp?) for this purpose.

I had the pleasure of meeting the brew master and asst brewer for Rana Dorada (Pamama City craft brewery) recently and they make an excellent Pils. They use a pretty standard lager schedule and it takes them at least 45 to produce their Pils...which is on par w any better known world class Pils I have tried. If there were no reason to go long then the pros, who are under production pressure, would not do it either.

Can you make a good lager in shorter time? Sure. Can you make an excellent one? Not in my experience or that of the pros (...throughout the history of lagers).
 
I'm of the opinion that some cold-conditioning after fermentation is crucial for an excellent lager as well. What I object to is the insistence that a lager must sit in the cold on the yeast for some arbitrary number of weeks before it's a "lager". When the beer is bright it's not going to get any more done, in fact, it will probably start to decline. New brewers, IMO, should be more concerned with proper oxygenation, pitch count, and temperature control in primary for a lager than worrying about where they're going to stick the whole fermenter in the cold for 8 weeks. "Lager" in the keg or bottle, i.e., just try to store your beer cold.
 
I'm of the opinion that some cold-conditioning after fermentation is crucial for an excellent lager as well. What I object to is the insistence that a lager must sit in the cold on the yeast for some arbitrary number of weeks before it's a "lager". When the beer is bright it's not going to get any more done, in fact, it will probably start to decline. New brewers, IMO, should be more concerned with proper oxygenation, pitch count, and temperature control in primary for a lager than worrying about where they're going to stick the whole fermenter in the cold for 8 weeks. "Lager" in the keg or bottle, i.e., just try to store your beer cold.

I agree with this. My practice is to pitch my yeast starter 5 - 6 degrees below the target fermentation temperature, set the fermentation temperature on my chest freezer, and walk away for 3 weeks. Once fermentation is over, I transfer to a keg and let it cold condition/carbonate and my keezer's serving temp (38F) for 3 - 4 weeks. This has ended up in good results for me, and I have had excellent results (and ribbons) doing this in several competitions.
 
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