First Lager Attempt

[Ridire]

I'm thinking of attempting a lager, just because. I am going to keep it simple (I know, it will turn out like BMC, I don't care) by just using 2-Row and Corn. I am thinking maybe:

12 lbs. 2-Row
2-3 lbs. flaked corn
.5 - 1 oz. of Mt. Hood.
Some lager yeast (Wyeast American Lager?)

But never having brewed a lager, I am not sure about the ferm schedule. Do I hold it in the yeasts range for the duration? How long (longer than ales, I assume)? Do I need to monkey with the temperature during the fermentation process?

Any tips for someone who's never done this before?

EDIT: for clarification, I have several all grain ales under my belt and I have a temp controlled fermenter, so I don't need advice about the general process of brewing or maintaining temp, just about things specific to lager yeast.

 

[NTexBrewer]

I have only done two lagers so I don't feel qualified to give too much information. I can tell you the fermentation is not as vigorous as ale fermentation. My first lager I used dry yeast without a starter and fermentation was about two weeks long. My second lager was a 2.5 gallon batch with two packs of dry yeast and the fermentation was a week long. I would definitely look into making a starter with liquid yeast.

Research diacetyl rest. This needs to be done near the end of fermentation to clean up flavors. It is done by warming the temp into the 60's for a few days near the end of fermentation.

I bottle my beers and I choose to bottle condition first and then lager them. It took longer than ales for them to carb up. About 3 weeks.

My first lager was a simple lager for my Bud drinking Father-in-Law. I must have done something right because he loves it.

My second lager a pecan dopplebach is currently lagering.

 

[Ridire]

I have only done two lagers so I don't feel qualified to give too much information. I can tell you the fermentation is not as vigorous as ale fermentation. My first lager I used dry yeast without a starter and fermentation was about two weeks long. My second lager was a 2.5 gallon batch with two packs of dry yeast and the fermentation was a week long. I would definitely look into making a starter with liquid yeast.

Research diacetyl rest. This needs to be done near the end of fermentation to clean up flavors. It is done by warming the temp into the 60's for a few days near the end of fermentation.

I bottle my beers and I choose to bottle condition first and then lager them. It took longer than ales for them to carb up. About 3 weeks.

My first lager was a simple lager for my Bud drinking Father-in-Law. I must have done something right because he loves it.

My second lager a pecan dopplebach is currently lagering.

Can you elaborate on lagering in the bottles? Do you ferement at around 50F for two weeks, do the rest (60F +/-) for a couple of days and then bottle and store in 33F-35F temps for a few more weeks before bringing up to room temperature to carb up? Do you carb at room temperature BEFORE the lagering?

EDIT: I like that idea, as I do not like the idea of using a secondary but I am also nervous about leaving such a light beer on the bugs for 6 weeks.

 

[NTexBrewer]

I fermented 2 weeks in the 50's. Raised temp to 60's for diacetyl rest. (I'm out so I don't have exact temps)

Added priming sugar and let carb at room temperature. After each week I would chill and test one bottle to see if it was carbonated. It took about 3 weeks.

I then put all bottles in the fridge to lager for 5 weeks.

 

[progmac]

your recipe looks like a classic american pilsner. my only comment is to perhaps keep the OG under 1.050 to minimize yeast stress the first time through. otherwise, lots of yeast and patience.

 

[Ridire]

OK, here is my planned schedule, then, to eliminate the need to check carbonation levels:

1. 50F for two weeks (check gravity to make sure stable at this point).
2. 60F+ for 5-6 days (for rest)
3. Bottle and leave at room temperature for 4 weeks.
4. Lager the bottles at 33F-35F for 5-6 weeks.

Wow, that seems like a long time. But I guess that is the price for brewing lagers, right?

 

[Ridire]

your recipe looks like a classic american pilsner. my only comment is to perhaps keep the OG under 1.050 to minimize yeast stress the first time through. otherwise, lots of yeast and patience.

I will make a starter to get the pitch rate correct (and I'll err on the side of overpitching for the first lager).

Think I should keep it this simple or add a touch of crystal to it for a little more malt flavor, a la Boston Lager?

EDIT: and maybe 9-9.5 lbs. of 2-Row? I haven't plugged this into BeerSmith yet.

 

[progmac]

I will make a starter to get the pitch rate correct (and I'll err on the side of overpitching for the first lager).

Think I should keep it this simple or add a touch of crystal to it for a little more malt flavor, a la Boston Lager?

EDIT: and maybe 9-9.5 lbs. of 2-Row? I haven't plugged this into BeerSmith yet.

My CAP is 8lbs base and 3lbs corn. But of course work it out for your own system. I wouldn't mix the caramel and corn, I think it would taste weird. Maybe do rice instead of corn if you want to add caramel.

 

[Ridire]

My CAP is 8lbs base and 3lbs corn. But of course work it out for your own system. I wouldn't mix the caramel and corn, I think it would taste weird. Maybe do rice instead of corn if you want to add caramel.

Probably right. The recipes I've seen with crystal for this style have only crystal and 2-Row. Probably a reason for that.

What I'm really trying to do here, other than brew a lager just to know how to do so, is to produce a beer that I don't have to say "that style is supposed to be bitter" or "you don't like it because you don't like dark beers". I want a few friends to see that you can brew "normal beer" at home and that my explanation of styles is not just an excuse for why the beer doesn't taste good to them. If this turns out, that would be great. If not, I'll go to something I'm more familiar with and brew a lighter ale (cream of 3 crops). I did have a few BMC drinkers taste my blonde this summer and they really liked that. I might try perfecting that, also.

 

[progmac]

Probably right. The recipes I've seen with crystal for this style have only crystal and 2-Row. Probably a reason for that.

What I'm really trying to do here, other than brew a lager just to know how to do so, is to produce a beer that I don't have to say "that style is supposed to be bitter" or "you don't like it because you don't like dark beers". I want a few friends to see that you can brew "normal beer" at home and that my explanation of styles is not just an excuse for why the beer doesn't taste good to them. If this turns out, that would be great. If not, I'll go to something I'm more familiar with and brew a lighter ale (cream of 3 crops). I did have a few BMC drinkers taste my blonde this summer and they really liked that. I might try perfecting that, also.

Yeah, I have a lot of friends like that and yours should be the perfect approach for them. I'd definitely leave out the caramel in that case. Keep the bittering no higher than 25IBU. Very light hand with late hops, no more than 0.5oz total after 15 mins

Dont use wyeast american lager yeast. It has a very specific and strong taste. I'd strongly recommend cry havoc yeast (862 iirc) or even the white labs steam yeast (810 iirc) for this beer. The white labs steam beer yeast works great in the normal lager range. You want something that doesn't attenuate too much so that you leave behind some corn sweetness. Shoot for an OG around 1.046-1.052 and a FG of 1.014 or so.

Also, you'll probably want to consider at least cold crashing before bottling. Even 'highly flocculant' lager yeasts are much more stubborn about compared with almost any ale yeast.

This won't turn out like BMC exactly -- it will have more body, a bit more bitterness, and a richer flavor. But it will still be very familiar and generally "premium" feeling to typical beer drinkers.

 

[Ridire]

Yeah, I have a lot of friends like that and yours should be the perfect approach for them. I'd definitely leave out the caramel in that case. Keep the bittering no higher than 25IBU. Very light hand with late hops, no more than 0.5oz total after 15 mins

Dont use wyeast american lager yeast. It has a very specific and strong taste. I'd strongly recommend cry havoc yeast (862 iirc) or even the white labs steam yeast (810 iirc) for this beer. The white labs steam beer yeast works great in the normal lager range. You want something that doesn't attenuate too much so that you leave behind some corn sweetness. Shoot for an OG around 1.046-1.052 and a FG of 1.014 or so.

This won't turn out like BMC exactly -- it will have more body, a bit more bitterness, and a richer flavor. But it will still be very familiar and generally "premium" feeling to typical beer drinkers.

Thanks for the tip on the yeast. I know nothing about lager yeast.

Will the lager naturally finish with a higher gravity, or should I up the temperature of my mash a little to get in that range?

EDIT: and I am hoping it has more flavor than BMC. What you describe is exactly what I'm shooting for. BMC drinkers will think it's "normal" and I will still be able to enjoy it.

 

[progmac]

Thanks for the tip on the yeast. I know nothing about lager yeast.

Will the lager naturally finish with a higher gravity, or should I up the temperature of my mash a little to get in that range?

EDIT: and I am hoping it has more flavor than BMC. What you describe is exactly what I'm shooting for. BMC drinkers will think it's "normal" and I will still be able to enjoy it.

I find they tend to finish about .02 higher than a similar ales but it depends on the strain. The two I mentioned are relatively low attenuators. Mash in the 152-156 range I would say.

 

[Ridire]

Just thought of another goofy question about lagers - should I keep my starter and stir plate down in the 50F-55F range?

 

[progmac]

Just thought of another goofy question about lagers - should I keep my starter and stir plate down in the 50F-55F range?

doesn't much matter IME