First Keg in the new keezer caught the clap

[Tacosaurus]

I feel like this is a pessimistic/needy first post so accept my apologies. I want to begin by stating that I’ve spent several months lurking, learning, and absorbing information from the very helpful posts in this community. It is my intention to not ask questions that have already been answered, but in my current situation I’m not able to find the clarity or consensus that is typical of a lot of common issues.

I hooked my first kegged beer up to my keezer Wednesday night, it tasted great, and at the same time Thursday evening it was an infected mess. I don’t fully understand where my set-up would have been vulnerable to this aggressive of an infection and need opinions and advice on eliminating the remnants of this in my equipment prior to my next attempt.

The only thing that touched this beer that was not in contact on a constant basis previously was the liquid QD, tap line, shank and faucet. Beer had been carbing in my garage for around 2 weeks, and I only removed the gas line QD to put the components in the keezer, hooking back directly afterward.

Over the course of the 2 weeks carbing, I have hooked up a liquid line and taken a few samples/pints. There was absolutely no infection at any of these points, including the first pull from the set-up after completed keezer installation, this occurred in the 24 hour period after hooking up to the final.

1. Can a beer line harbor an infection this aggressive? I haven’t found any examples of an entire keg getting smacked in less than 24hrs by a beer line.

2. Can infection in tap lines contaminate the entire keg? I pulled around 2 pints off before disconnecting the line, I’m assuming 2 pints is enough to be pulling from the keg and not lines only (5ft).

3. When disconnecting the liquid lines there was spillage into the keezer. I wiped the interior down with 1/10 bleach/water solution, is this sufficient given it is an external environment?

4. If the keg was contaminated, could this have gotten into the gas lines if the infection created excess head pressure and pushed air back into gas lines (Set at 10 PSI)?

5. Is the wooden collar susceptible to harboring this infection long term due to being porous?

6. Do lines need to have sanitizer left in them in between kegs?

7. Is bleaching the disconnects enough or should I replace all liquid side non-metal?

Things I’ve done/will do—

· Both beer lines are garbage, bought new line.

· Removed everything from keezer, wiped exterior of keg, CO2 tank, and interior of keezer with 1/10 bleach/water and air dried.

· Soaked faucets, QDs (gas and liquid), shanks, and rubber shank washers in same bleach solution for 15 minutes. Rinsed with water and air dried.

· Will clean keg with boiling water, PBW, Star San, and replace all O-Rings.

· Will run sanitizer through new beer lines

Equipment:

(2) 5 Gallon Ball Lock Corny Keg

* Were purchased used, Soaked/cleaned with PBW, sanitized with Star San, beer sat in keg under pressure for ~2 weeks prior to hook-up to keezer and tasted great.

(1) 10lb CO2 Tank

(1) Tap-Rite Dual Body Regulator

(2) Gas lines and QDs (MFL)

(2) Beer lines and QDs (MFL, fitting leaked so thread wrapped in Teflon tape)

(2) 4in faucet shanks

(2) Perlick Chrome plated faucets

(1) Collar, Freezer, and temp controller.

Infection characteristics (Pretty inexperienced off- flavor identifier)

· Poured quite cloudy (change from previous pours)

· Head disappeared almost immediately

· Sharp, cutting, solvent/light vinegar taste

· Body way diminished (Was a FG 1.016 ESB, so had a good backbone previously)

· This is a “spit the beer out on the floor” change, not a “hmm, that’s an off-taste I hadn’t noticed before”

Thanks in advance for the feedback and help. Pretty discouraging for the first beer through the keezer to end up ruined, no feeling sorry for myself though. I’ll be brewing a replacement this weekend to hopefully get on tap in the next few weeks. I want to make sure the set-up is ready to go for next time and I don’t repeat any mis-steps.

 

[55x11]

I feel like this is a pessimistic/needy first post so accept my apologies. I want to begin by stating that I’ve spent several months lurking, learning, and absorbing information from the very helpful posts in this community. It is my intention to not ask questions that have already been answered, but in my current situation I’m not able to find the clarity or consensus that is typical of a lot of common issues.

I hooked my first kegged beer up to my keezer Wednesday night, it tasted great, and at the same time Thursday evening it was an infected mess. I don’t fully understand where my set-up would have been vulnerable to this aggressive of an infection and need opinions and advice on eliminating the remnants of this in my equipment prior to my next attempt.

The only thing that touched this beer that was not in contact on a constant basis previously was the liquid QD, tap line, shank and faucet. Beer had been carbing in my garage for around 2 weeks, and I only removed the gas line QD to put the components in the keezer, hooking back directly afterward.

Over the course of the 2 weeks carbing, I have hooked up a liquid line and taken a few samples/pints. There was absolutely no infection at any of these points, including the first pull from the set-up after completed keezer installation, this occurred in the 24 hour period after hooking up to the final.

1. Can a beer line harbor an infection this aggressive? I haven’t found any examples of an entire keg getting smacked in less than 24hrs by a beer line.

2. Can infection in tap lines contaminate the entire keg? I pulled around 2 pints off before disconnecting the line, I’m assuming 2 pints is enough to be pulling from the keg and not lines only (5ft).

3. When disconnecting the liquid lines there was spillage into the keezer. I wiped the interior down with 1/10 bleach/water solution, is this sufficient given it is an external environment?

4. If the keg was contaminated, could this have gotten into the gas lines if the infection created excess head pressure and pushed air back into gas lines (Set at 10 PSI)?

5. Is the wooden collar susceptible to harboring this infection long term due to being porous?

6. Do lines need to have sanitizer left in them in between kegs?

7. Is bleaching the disconnects enough or should I replace all liquid side non-metal?

Things I’ve done/will do—

· Both beer lines are garbage, bought new line.

· Removed everything from keezer, wiped exterior of keg, CO2 tank, and interior of keezer with 1/10 bleach/water and air dried.

· Soaked faucets, QDs (gas and liquid), shanks, and rubber shank washers in same bleach solution for 15 minutes. Rinsed with water and air dried.

· Will clean keg with boiling water, PBW, Star San, and replace all O-Rings.

· Will run sanitizer through new beer lines

Equipment:

(2) 5 Gallon Ball Lock Corny Keg

* Were purchased used, Soaked/cleaned with PBW, sanitized with Star San, beer sat in keg under pressure for ~2 weeks prior to hook-up to keezer and tasted great.

(1) 10lb CO2 Tank

(1) Tap-Rite Dual Body Regulator

(2) Gas lines and QDs (MFL)

(2) Beer lines and QDs (MFL, fitting leaked so thread wrapped in Teflon tape)

(2) 4in faucet shanks

(2) Perlick Chrome plated faucets

(1) Collar, Freezer, and temp controller.

Infection characteristics (Pretty inexperienced off- flavor identifier)

· Poured quite cloudy (change from previous pours)

· Head disappeared almost immediately

· Sharp, cutting, solvent/light vinegar taste

· Body way diminished (Was a FG 1.016 ESB, so had a good backbone previously)

· This is a “spit the beer out on the floor” change, not a “hmm, that’s an off-taste I hadn’t noticed before”

Thanks in advance for the feedback and help. Pretty discouraging for the first beer through the keezer to end up ruined, no feeling sorry for myself though. I’ll be brewing a replacement this weekend to hopefully get on tap in the next few weeks. I want to make sure the set-up is ready to go for next time and I don’t repeat any mis-steps.

It's very likely to be from beer line or tap, in my opinion. Another option is the keg itself. Or perhaps the beer was infected to begin with (but then why was it tasting good on Wed and turned sour on Thur? even though it's a bit quick!). I assume you cleaned the keg by filling it with starsan? usually that should do the trick. Spillage of beer inside the keezer, wood collar etc should have zero impact/relationship.

 

[Brentk14]

I wouldn't think it is the lines. beer shouldn't flow back in the keg from the line. How many pints have you poured off, and is it fully carbed? You might be getting a bunch of yeast and sediment. Did you go right from fermenting temp to the keg, and refrigerate, because that is basically cold crashing in the keg, and your first few pours will be cloudy.
Replacing the lines was a good idea, but I'd throw the bleach mix out. All you need for brewing is pbw and starsan. Bleach is a pain in the ass to rinse off, and the aroma, and flavor linger. Anything you washed with bleach should be re-cleaned with pbw and starsan in my opinion, and if you put bleach in contact with the lines, I would toss those and get new lines again.

 

[IslandLizard]

Yeah, it's unlikely (read: impossible) a keg of beer turns sour and/or bad tasting in a cool environment in 24 hours.

Did you clean and sanitize the QDs, beer line, shanks and taps before hooking the keg to it? The beer in the line could be tainted, but the beer in the keg is probably just fine.

 

[Tacosaurus]

I wouldn't think it is the lines. beer shouldn't flow back in the keg from the line. How many pints have you poured off, and is it fully carbed? You might be getting a bunch of yeast and sediment. Did you go right from fermenting temp to the keg, and refrigerate, because that is basically cold crashing in the keg, and your first few pours will be cloudy.
Replacing the lines was a good idea, but I'd throw the bleach mix out. All you need for brewing is pbw and starsan. Bleach is a pain in the ass to rinse off, and the aroma, and flavor linger. Anything you washed with bleach should be re-cleaned with pbw and starsan in my opinion, and if you put bleach in contact with the lines, I would toss those and get new lines again.

Thanks for the feedback. I poured off about 2 pints total after the first draught yesterday tasted infected. I'll hook a separate picnic tap up today to make sure my statement is correct, but I feel like 2 pints should be pulling from the keg (5ft line). Actually, the beer has been kegged for around 2 weeks and poor man's cold crashing in the garage while carbing up. The first pull Wednesday was definitely riled up sediment a bit but tasted fine. This is definitely tainted. Appreciate and agreed on the bleach, all those fittings will be recleaned and sanitized prior to reuse, I just wanted to nuke what was there and have read about stubborn persistent infections. Re: the lines, I tossed them for sure. Only bleached the metals and disconnects.

 

[Tacosaurus]

Yeah, it's unlikely (read: impossible) a keg of beer turns sour and/or bad tasting in a cool environment in 24 hours.

Did you clean and sanitize the QDs, beer line, shanks and taps before hooking the keg to it? The beer in the line could be tainted, but the beer in the keg is probably just fine.

Definitely seems to be an plurality of folks saying that the lines wouldn't hit the whole keg, that's part of the reason I made the post as I couldn't find anyone saying it had happened to them. I'll hook it up to a separate picnic tap to verify, but I pulled 2 pints off and tasted both yesterday.

 

[Tacosaurus]

Picture of the finished set-up, at least she's pretty.

View attachment 1483134841089.jpg

 

[Tacosaurus]

Definitely seems to be an plurality of folks saying that the lines wouldn't hit the whole keg, that's part of the reason I made the post as I couldn't find anyone saying it had happened to them. I'll hook it up to a separate picnic tap to verify, but I pulled 2 pints off and tasted both yesterday.

Also re: sanitizing lines, shank, faucet ect.

I thought so, but pretty certain this is where it came from given the lack of anything else new that touched the beer in that time. That's why I was confused about the rest of the batch being tainted.

 

[Tacosaurus]

For follow up, appreciate the help. I pulled a few pints off with a separate picnic tap yesterday and they tasted fine, so those of you suggesting it wouldn't go back into the keg were correct. I must not have cleared the lines when pulling the infected bit out.

 

[Bobby_M]

My beers always go down hill for the first week or so in the keg. I've decided it is from sediment concentration right in the zone where you pull from. It was good previously because remaining sediment was distributed in 5 gallons.

 

[Brentk14]

My beers always go down hill for the first week or so in the keg. I've decided it is from sediment concentration right in the zone where you pull from. It was good previously because remaining sediment was distributed in 5 gallons.

I agree with you on this. It seems like there is always a 2-4 day span after kegging where my beer seems to lose aroma and taste. Always seems to bounce back once the beer is fully carbed correctly, and last bit of sediment is gone.

 

[Tacosaurus]

Re-did my lines yesterday. New vinyl tubing, boil sanitized and starsan on the metals, star san everything else including running through the tubing. Beer tasted great. Today, same issue as the original post. First thing I noticed is it poured with no head which seemed strange. Same awful infection taste. Clearly something going on with me line set-up that I am missing. Should I scrap the disconnect or all fittings minus the faucet and shank?

 

[Tacosaurus]

Disassembled the lines again, scrapped lines, clamps, disconnects, and all fittings for the disconnect. Soaked faucets, shank, tail piece, and nut in Potassium Metabisulfite water. One thing I didn't scrap or notice is the O-ring in the faucet. This is still there for now as I couldn't easily remove it and was concerned it wasn't intended to be replaceable. I have the keg hooked to a gas line only at the moment. I'm hopeful I can figure out what's going on here by the time I get replacement tubing and disconnects again. I star san bombed the inside of the keezer todo my best to eradicate anything from the spilled beer. I haven't been able to find many people having the same issues as me, so I am perplexed at what is going on here. The infection taste which is very forward is an almost stinging sensation along with what I could only describe as a mix of acid and what I imagine isopropyl alcohol or the likes would taste like. Probably not much value in figuring out what it is specifically at this point. Its clearly a bug that's tanking the lines overnight.

 

[d3track]

Did you boil the vinyl tubing?

 

[Schlenkerla]

I can't say I have ever had that problem. I typically flush all my keezer lines with iodophor after cleaning and sanitizing the empty keg.

I would make a point of staying away from harsh chemicals right now. Boil if possible or sterilize if you have a pressure cooker. At least to rule out new chemicals.

I have cleaned infected party taps and my jockey box several times. I typically use unscented oxy-clean and soak over night. Then thoroughly rinse with rinse free sanitizer. I use Iodophor mixed at 25 ppm.

Sanitize then follow up with rinsing/flushing with distilled water might be be an option if you want nothing to in the lines that would be suspect.

 

[D-west]

Did you take apart the faucet and brush it out with PBW, or just soak it? You should be scrubbing everything down, sounds like a deposit somewhere.

 

[TallDan]

No way that you have some sort of infection in your serving line that makes beer taste bad in <24 hours in a refrigerated environment. It's much more likely that you're getting chemical taste from your cleaners/sanitizers and just off-flavor from new vinyl lines. Flush your lines and everything with clean water, no sanitizer, no nothing, just water. Then pull a half pint and dump it, and pull a fresh glass of beer. You may need to pour off the first half pint each day until you've used the lines for a while.

 

[V-Fib]

I have heard people having bacteria in their regulator/gas lines from back flow into it. Might be worth a check.

 

[k1ngl1ves]

I would think it was from sediment settling to the bottom as the keg temp lowered. Yeast and/or trub can be pretty funky sometimes. If you move the keg(like moving it into a kegerator or sometimes just bumping it), the odd taste may come back for a pint or two from moving the sediment around... and could take a few days to settle down again. Depends on how much got into the keg when racking. Most likely it settled from Wednesday night into Thursday in your case.


I don't think it is an infection. Sounds more like a "New To Kegging" problem. We've all been there.



Wait until you get your first co2 leak. It can be nerve racking, but just have patience and a bottle of spray bubbles.

Or the infamous o-ring on the dip tube leaking, mysteriously causing uncontrollable foaming... without a noticeable loss of co2. Good times. Good times.

All in all, once you become more comfortable, kegging is a blessing.

 

[Tacosaurus]

Did you boil the vinyl tubing?

I replaced all tubing, did not boil prior to installation. Just flushed with Starsan.

 

[Tacosaurus]

Did you take apart the faucet and brush it out with PBW, or just soak it? You should be scrubbing everything down, sounds like a deposit somewhere.

Disassembled and soaked. I will put some elbow grease in before reassembling. The faucets were brand new though, everything was as I was setting up my keezer for the first time.

 

[Schlenkerla]

I replaced all tubing, did not boil prior to installation. Just flushed with Starsan.

Flushing with distilled water is like flushing with the purest of solvents. Its so pure that things have an affinity to it, they want to attach in a molecular-like nature.

For it to work though, things have too be pretty clean.

I'd try a good cleaning and a flush with pure DI or distilled water. Then taste the water. It should be defect free; clear and tasteless. So should your beer. (Edit: Defect free, NOT tasteless. LOL)

FWIW - I bought 5 gal PTFE water bottles for a counter top upside-down water fountain. Rinsed them and filled them with filtered water and tasted fine, then two days later tasted like plastic. I dumped it, soaked in more water with a few tablespoons of baking soda and let it sit for a week. Dumped it again and filled it and now its got no after taste and this is many weeks later.

 

[Tacosaurus]

Several of you mentioning flushing new lines with distilled water. I'll attempt this and see what the results look like. Boy is this an aggressive taste though, not subtle or drinkable. I can't believe something like this could be a product of food grade stuff but I've also never paid that any thought until now.

I think a good experiment would be the suggested of letting the distilled water set in the line overnight and seeing if I get the same thing.

Re: pouring the first half pint out, I poured 2-3 whole pints the first time and still got the taste almost full on, but not when I hooked up a fresh picnic tap line the next day and took a draw. Should have left the picnic line on overnight to see if it happened there too.

 

[Schlenkerla]

Should have left the picnic line on overnight to see if it happened there too.

Thats a good idea and might be a sense of relief if its good the next day.

 

[Tacosaurus]

Thats a good idea and might be a sense of relief if its good the next day.

Ordered a cheap picnic tap/line/QD assembled via same day Amazon (threw the first out after fear of contamination). I will test the theory again tonight by pulling a pint or 2 off and noting whether it as the first time tastes fine and then leave this one on overnight rather than reconnect to the faucet. Process of elimination I suppose.

 

[Tacosaurus]

I don't think it is an infection. Sounds more like a "New To Kegging" problem.

It is definitely being new, I just think I am doing something incorrectly to cause it due to that inexperience. It's definitely not your standard beer off flavor, and changing the line the first time immediately kicked it only for it to do the same exact thing overnight again. Bizarre stuff. Testing with a separate picnic assembly tonight to start to narrow this down.

 

[TallDan]

New equipment and chemicals are your problem. Adding more new equipment is more likely to add to the problem than fix it.

 

[IslandLizard]

Ordered a cheap picnic tap/line/QD assembled via same day Amazon (threw the first out after fear of contamination). I will test the theory again tonight by pulling a pint or 2 off and noting whether it as the first time tastes fine and then leave this one on overnight rather than reconnect to the faucet. Process of elimination I suppose.

The alarming rate at which you're throwing out stuff is especially worrisome. Most of us throw out very little, but we are diligent with cleaning and sanitizing.

Pretty much everything is cleanable. Only when it's clean it can be sanitized, keep that in mind. I use (homemade) hot PBW, washing soda, and Starsan mostly, lye, Soft Scrub, BKF, occasionally. I have 16' long beer lines in use for over 3 years. Shorter ones on picnic taps are 6+ years old, as are the taps themselves. Never had any issue with them. Water tastes like water, beer as it is supposed to.

I think this was brought up before, have you cleaned your keezer taps and shanks well before use? Is everything 100% stainless or are there brass parts mixed in?

New equipment and chemicals are your problem. Adding more new equipment is more likely to add to the problem than fix it.

My thoughts exactly, as they don't seem to solve the problem.

 

[Schlenkerla]

I think he's gonna try water to see if it imparts that awful taste.

I would....

 

[Tacosaurus]

The alarming rate at which you're throwing out stuff is especially worrisome. Most of us throw out very little, but we are diligent with cleaning and sanitizing.

Pretty much everything is cleanable. Only when it's clean it can be sanitized, keep that in mind. I use (homemade) hot PBW, washing soda, and Starsan mostly, lye, Soft Scrub, BKF, occasionally. I have 16' long beer lines in use for over 3 years. Shorter ones on picnic taps are 6+ years old, as are the taps themselves. Never had any issue with them. Water tastes like water, beer as it is supposed to.

I think this was brought up before, have you cleaned your keezer taps and shanks well before use? Is everything 100% stainless or are there brass parts mixed in?



My thoughts exactly, as they don't seem to solve the problem.

Thanks for providing feedback. I'm not intending to be wasteful, just reacting to what I perceived to be a potential infection risk. I'm getting a lot of great feedback in this thread so I'm hopefull I can hang on to the rest! There for a minute I was just going to burn the whole house down, lol.

Re: cleaning - I clean/sanitize exclusively with PBW and Star San for all beer equiptment. I did clean all fittings new equiptment with this same combo prior to install.
I used a 1/10 bleach/water solution on the metal pieces after the first disassembly and rinsed thoroughly as well as re-cleaned with my normal process after ensuring all pieces were free of bleach residue. (Did not clean anything with bleach solution prior to initial install)

The shanks and faucet are both chrome plated, not complete SS. Is this a potential issue? Both were cleaned thoroughly and disassembled completely.

http://www.homebrewing.org/Faucet-Shank-Assembly--Chrome-Plated_p_6654.html

Faucet's are Perlick 630PC

Thanks again for the help.

 

[Tacosaurus]

I think he's gonna try water to see if it imparts that awful taste.

I would....

Yes, I am going to do this.

 

[Tacosaurus]

Yes, I am going to do this.

Haven't abandoned this, had a busy week and was waiting on a few beer washers in the mail. I'll hook it up tomorrow with a keg filled with a gallon of distilled water.

Ive kept a picnic tap on the beer all week and have been drinking from it. Same thing is happening. I poured out the first ~6oz tonight and the first 2 full beers still has it to a point of ruining the pour.

I'm extremely sensitive to this taste, the distilled water experiment I believe will tell a lot. My SO said she could definitely taste that the beer was off first pour, but she really isn't a beer person. One thing that I don't know is noteworthy or not. Her quote, "this tastes like the inside of the keezer smells." &#128559;

Are vinyl hose permeable to the extent that the internal environment can leech in off flavors? The freezer being used is brand new, but I suspect there could be chemical protectants or whatever. I didn't do a full wash down, but have used water, star san and small amounts of dawn free cleaning up beer puddles. Just a thought.

If this is something that is normal, is there a conditioning period for plastic/vinyl equiptment to not pass on these flavors? Is there an alternate line type I should look into if after a few weeks I still can't get past the apparent equiptment flavor?

 

[TallDan]

Haven't abandoned this, had a busy week and was waiting on a few beer washers in the mail. I'll hook it up tomorrow with a keg filled with a gallon of distilled water.



Ive kept a picnic tap on the beer all week and have been drinking from it. Same thing is happening. I poured out the first ~6oz tonight and the first 2 full beers still has it to a point of ruining the pour.



I'm extremely sensitive to this taste, the distilled water experiment I believe will tell a lot. My SO said she could definitely taste that the beer was off first pour, but she really isn't a beer person. One thing that I don't know is noteworthy or not. Her quote, "this tastes like the inside of the keezer smells." [emoji54]



Are vinyl hose permeable to the extent that the internal environment can leech in off flavors? The freezer being used is brand new, but I suspect there could be chemical protectants or whatever. I didn't do a full wash down, but have used water, star san and small amounts of dawn free cleaning up beer puddles. Just a thought.



If this is something that is normal, is there a conditioning period for plastic/vinyl equiptment to not pass on these flavors? Is there an alternate line type I should look into if after a few weeks I still can't get past the apparent equiptment flavor?

Bev-seal ultra. It's stiffer than vinyl, so harder to get on your fittings and deal with in the keezer, but to me it's worth the hassle.

 

[Schlenkerla]

Are you using food grade beer lines?

 

[Tacosaurus]

Bev-seal ultra. It's stiffer than vinyl, so harder to get on your fittings and deal with in the keezer, but to me it's worth the hassle.

Thanks for the suggestion. I read up on those, alongside the Guest fittings for QDs. I may go that route. I already have some vinyl line so I'll finish out this experiment with distilled water, and probably finish out the keg prior to determining a switch.

 

[Tacosaurus]

Are you using food grade beer lines?

Yes, the purchasing source for the first set was AIH, they came as part of a shank assembly. The current set from my LHBS. I'm putting the distilled water in today per your suggestion.