First infection in apx 20 years...

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Misplaced_Canuck

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I've been doing the Oxi-Clean soak (usually 2-3 days), and bleach water pumping on all of my glass fermenters (call me old school) without any issues until recently.

Out of the blue, I go an infection in a UK Mild that I couldn't immediately pinpoint. But one thing had changed in my process...: I used an off-brand of oxygen cleaner. I went from using Oxi-Clean (Free) to using the brand at Big Lots ( think it was Big Lots), made by All. (All OXI Laundry Booster for Sensitive Skin, Free Clear).

As it turns out, the formulation of the All product is quite different than Oxi-Clean, and upon further inspection, I noticed water beading after rinsing inside my fermenters, right at the level were the krausen would sit. I think we all know that this is the toughest part of the crud to remove... So even with a long soaking, some crud was left behind, and it wasn't visible to the eye.

Here's what Oxi-Clean Free contains:
1678115212029.png


And here's what the All brand contains:

1678115639528.jpeg


Anyways, all this to say, I would NOT recommend using the All brand of oxygen cleaner for cleaning brewing equipment.
 
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I don't know why you would call it "OXI" anything if that list of ingredients is correct. But that's not what it says here.
Oddly, that link you sent lists water as part of the ingredients. I don't believe that there is any water in it, other than ambient humidity, since it's a powder.
 
Oddly, that link you sent lists water as part of the ingredients. I don't believe that there is any water in it, other than ambient humidity, since it's a powder
Especially with a picture of a product that is clearly a powder. Apparently they sell more than one product with similar names.
 
I don't know. Two products that have the same active ingredients won't necessarily work equally well. It's also possible that he just had more stubborn Krausen Krud this time around and would have had the problem even if he'd used oxi.
 
It seems that @Misplaced_Canuck must look elsewhere for the source of infection.
20 years of using the same process and same products, then change a product and get an infection... I think I'm pointing in the right direction. I'll switch back to Oxi-Clean since it's the smoking gun right now, and a simple switch.
 
I've been using the Family Dollar Store oxi cleaner for the last ten years with good results. You could try that. But I also understand an infection is the last thing you want, so maybe it's not good to take chances.
 
I've been using the Family Dollar Store oxi cleaner for the last ten years with good results. You could try that. But I also understand an infection is the last thing you want, so maybe it's not good to take chances.
I just ordered some Oxy-Clean Free from Amazon, will go back to that. I'll use the off-brand stuff for laundry :)

What really had me puzzled is the water beading on the location of the krausen. I had not had that issue before.
 
Those look fairly similar in composition, around 30% PerCarbonate, the remainder mostly washing soda (Sodium Carbonate).
The Percarbonate releases the oxygen, and also becomes washing soda in that process, a good alkaline cleaner too. Not enough reason to suspect the All product to be all that inferior.

It seems that @Misplaced_Canuck must look elsewhere for the source of infection.
I surely would too, there could be another infection vector.
Glass is easy to clean, plastic/silicone tubing, not so. Also spigots and valves can harbor bugs, even the kettle valve.
 
Not enough reason to suspect the All product to be all that inferior.
Yeah, I personally wouldn't consider All to be an off brand. But the OP did mention that there was water beading on the part of his fermenter where the krausen would have been, so it does seem reasonable to think that might be what didn't get cleaned and sanitized well enough. Even if the All product isn't the reason why.
 
If there's visible issues inside a fermenter, they should definitely be addressed. Oxi can reduce the need for elbow grease, but I generally needed some brush action to deal with the krausen line in glass fermenters. A bleach solution may be less environmentally friendly but can out-perform Oxi.

I certainly understand your thinking, @Misplaced_Canuck , regarding a solid history and then a change that coincides with a problem. Though the alternative Oxi product might well be innocent here, I'd do as you did.

But I'd also make a serious effort elsewhere as @IslandLizard suggests. I've seen some surprising things when disassembling valves, for example.

I hope your next batch comes out great!
 
I've used 6+ tubs of the All free and clear oxi mixed with TSP in the last couple of years (70/30) and can't say I've had any infection issues with it. I am a bit light with it too when measuring. Since PBW says to use hot water with it I rinse with hot water as well. You will get a precipitate out of it if you let it sit and get cold overnight. It sort of reminds me of how Ivory soap will film up in water after sitting but I don't often let it sit overnight anymore either. I figure it works less efficiently when cooler and it does take a little extra work to rinse it. I probably only ever bought 2-3 tubs of PBW before I started making my own and I have used about 2-3 tubs of Oxiclean. I use a homemade keg/carboy washer and will only run 2-3 items through before the water cools down. I don't use that much in the carboy washer as it foams up a lot so that's also why I like to keep the water warm while running it.

@Misplaced_Canuck do you use a brush or just let the carboys soak? You also didn't mention adding TSP to it?
 
@Misplaced_Canuck do you use a brush or just let the carboys soak? You also didn't mention adding TSP to it?

No TSP. I've used warm water with one measure of Oxi-Clean or All in the later case. I do brush as needed. There was no visible crud in the fermenter after using All, but the beading when rinsing led me to believe otherwise.
 
What I noticed is that if I overuse my carboy washer, like 3 or more times, was that a particularly dirty carboy might not get all the krausen off even after a day or two. I attributed this to either colder water or the weaker amount I used. I can't really put more than one scoop in about 2 to 3 gallons of water as this foams too much. It was something I almost missed as it was just a few spots. I say scoop as I measured out ounces and have a scooper that has 2 oz lines. Even PBW though says something like 1-3 oz gallon for dirty stuff.

Now I could let it run for a few days and everything was always clean. I've been working on getting the first carboy switched so the water is still warm after 30 minutes.
When I first started making the homemade PBW, I mistakenly thought it was a Tbsp not an ounce but a Tbsp is less than an ounce.

I also CIP on my EHERMS and there I boost the temp to 150 and lately have been working on holding that temp instead of turning off the BK element completely. I use about 5-6 gallons to do that and about 4-5 oz of homemade there.
 
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