First home brew next weekend, few questions

[DeuceK]

I received my Cherry Wheat 5 gal recipe kit with a Weihenstephan Weizen Wyeast Propagator 3068 smack pack and a Danstar Munich dry yeast packet the other day from Midwest. This will be my first homebrew and I have a few questions about my yeast. I’ve read some threads, John Palmer’s book, and the instructions from Midwest about making starters and they all seem to be on the same page, but with some different small details. Just trying to nail down the details…

Right now my current plan is to smack the Propagator this (Thursday) afternoon and let it sit for 24hrs or so. Then make a starter with the Propagator and some DME I got from the LHBS tomorrow (Friday) and let it sit until Saturday, then put it in the fridge Saturday night so I can brew Sunday and just pitch the slurry. If I decide to pitch the whole starter instead, I’ll just let it sit out until Sunday…of course this is all subject to change once I get some feedback from my questions below.

I understand the Propagator yeast count is not sufficient for direct pitching into a 5 gallon batch and requires a 1-2 L starter. So I have a few questions:

1) Do I make a 1 or 2 liter starter? Does it matter?
2) Do I need to let the smack pack reach room temp. (~75 degrees) before smacking, or can I smack it right after I take it out of the refrigerator?
3) Is adding the Yeast Nutrient mixture absolutely necessary? Any possible household substitutes?
4) Pitch the whole 1-2 L of starter wort, or should I cool it overnight and dump the spent wort, just pitching the slurry?
5) Can I pitch the Propagator straight from the pack and also pitch the dry yeast (I’ll rehydrate the dry yeast)?

I’m planning to pick up the supplies to make an immersion wort chiller today after work, so I’ll post some pics of my work once she’s all finished!

Also…in my recipe it says to “put the crushed grains into the boiling bag. Add 1.5 - 2 gallons of tap water to your pot. Set the grain bag into your pot and turn the heat to high. Steep your grains at 155 degrees for 10 - 30 minutes.” Should my grains be in the water while it’s heating up to 155 degrees, or should I add them to the water after it’s reached the 155 mark?

One last question…the suggested fermentation temp. for the recipe is 65 -75 degrees. My house is usually right at the 74 - 75 mark. Is it okay to be at the upper end of the range the whole time, or should I try to cool the place down for a few weeks?

Thanks for all your help!
-Kevin

 

[pen25]

your using a smack pack. no reason to make a starter. you can smack the pack when you begin to get everything started. no need for 24 hours.

so begin brew day pull the smack pack out and pop the internal pack. if you dont pop it no big deal. grab a pair of sterilized scissors and cut it open and pour it after pitching the yeast.

i add the grains to the bag and add a gallon of water and begin heating. and i use an electric kettle to heat water 1 quart at a time. this shortens my heating time.

i will also bring water up to temp using the kettle as well for the sparging and bring the additional water after adding the extract to boil. this shortens the time it takes to boil the wort.

for temp control theres a couple methods. if you have a cooler you can use it with water and frozen bottles of water. you should only need to swap bottles once a day right now, the first couple days are the days you want to keep the temp regulated. after primary fermentation its not as important and 75 i think is fine. i used some rigid foam board to make a top for my ice cube cooler to keep the temps more regulated. my house therm is set to 80 during the day so it never goes above 80 and using this method i was able to maintain a steady 70 degrees during the heat of summer here in tulsa.

 

[chemman14]

My parents have a wine cellar that is kept at 55 degrees. that is too cold for an ale yeast right?

 

[SchizoFilly]

I don't use starters...ever...but to answer #5:

Sanitize the Propagator package and then pour it in the bucket/carboy...it will work

Dry yeast doesn't have to be rehydrated.....just cool the wort down to pitching temp and and pour the dry yeast on top....it will work



on your fermentation temp, you can use a tub full of water and wrap a t-shirt around the fermentor to get those temps down a few degrees, maybe thrown in a fan for good measure

 

[c.n.budz]

1. A one liter starter is fine, though you should give it more than one day and do not put it in the fridge.
2. You can smack it right out of the fridge.
3. Yeast nutrient is nice but not necessary, in fact I've never used it and never had a problem with a starter
4. Most people will just pitch the slurry, but you can pitch the whole thing if you want.
5. If you pitch the propagator straight from the pack you will be under pitching by a lot. You're better off making a starter than mixing yeasts.

Good luck on the first brew

 

[Trubadour]

+1. This is your first batch - Don't worry about a starter. It will be great. I didn't make a starter for my first 10 batches and they're all excellent.

Before I got an extra fridge with temp controller for fermenting, I used a big bucket (got it from Lowe's - has rope handles, think it's called a beverage tub), fill with water, and rotate a few frozen water bottles once or twice a day. That should keep it cold. It won't hurt to ferment at your room temp, it just might come out a bit fruity tasting.

 

[jjp36]

Propagator packs are not Activator packs. Propagators require a starter. I don't know why people are recommending that you not make one, its easy and ensures you have enough viable yeasts to prevent stuck ferments and long lag times. I would reccommend either making a starter or going with the dry yeast. I wouldn't use both.

 

[Arkador]

The Activator™ has a minimum of 100 billion cells of pure, ready-to-pitch yeast, plus an internal nutrient packet. The Activator™ is designed to inoculate five gallons of wort (up to 1.060 SG) providing the pitching rate recommended by professional brewers. No starter is needed, but not a bad idea.


The PROPAGATOR™ has a minimum of 25 billion cells of pure yeast, plus an internal nutrient packet. The PROPAGATOR™ is designed to inoculate a one liter starter* before adding to five gallons of wort (up to 1.060 SG). Definatley needs a sterter!

if it is a Propagator, you definatley need a starter
http://www.wyeastlab.com/rw_productinformation.cfm

 

[foxual]

I was in the same boat as you for my first brew (which was yesterday). Here's the thread: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/bought-wyeast-propagator-instead-activator-119810/

What happened was, I decided to do a starter. Let the packet warm up to room temp, smacked it, let it sit for 24 hours. Boiled 4 cups water to one cup Amber DME for 15 minutes, cooled it, poured it and the yeast into a growler and put foil over the top, and let it sit at room temperature. I pitched it all after ~16 hours, but it was recommended to let it go at lest 24 hours. My airlock was bubbling ~24 hours later.

This was my FIRST ever batch, and it the starter came out great (I was nervous as hell).

 

[beerkrump]

Good luck on your brew day, foxual!

Just to make sure, google 'How to Brew' and give John Palmer's on line book a read. The first couple of chapters will answer a ton of first time brewer questions.

 

[Schnitzengiggle]

Read the info at: Mr Malty I have been an advocate of thier info since finding their site (due to HBT of course) has all the essential starter info you need.

BTW I have only brewed once w/o a starter (1st brew), and in my experience a starter is common sense when using liquid yeast.

It proofs, raises cell counts, reduces lag times, and makes for an overall healthier fermentation (ie. less chance for off flavors due to yeast stress).

Make a starter, it is easy and worth-while. Remember, when making a starter it is about making healthy yeast, your starter wort doesn't have to be great beer.

 

[MgMt_Home_Brew]

So do you have a propogator pack or an activator?

 

[944play]

FIRST BATCH? Just use the dry yeast. Concentrate on sanitation and temperatures before you worry about pitching rate and starters and stuff.

 

[Schnitzengiggle]

FIRST BATCH? Just use the dry yeast. Concentrate on sanitation and temperatures before you worry about pitching rate and starters and stuff.

I didn't even bother getting the dry yeast, my LHBS makes up their own kits, and if you want the liquid, he will discount you the $1.25 and take the dry if you don't want it, so I wish I had known about starters with my first brew.

You are going to have to do it eventually, and it is as easy as boiling 1cup of DME in a quart of water, cooling, shaking vigorously to oxygenate and pitching the yeast, swirl it as often as possible, and your done.

I could have done that before my first brew day, but I had no idea

 

[DeuceK]

I was in the same boat as you for my first brew (which was yesterday). Here's the thread: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/bought-wyeast-propagator-instead-activator-119810/

What happened was, I decided to do a starter. Let the packet warm up to room temp, smacked it, let it sit for 24 hours. Boiled 4 cups water to one cup Amber DME for 15 minutes, cooled it, poured it and the yeast into a growler and put foil over the top, and let it sit at room temperature. I pitched it all after ~16 hours, but it was recommended to let it go at lest 24 hours. My airlock was bubbling ~24 hours later.

This was my FIRST ever batch, and it the starter came out great (I was nervous as hell).

I read that thred, but seemed like a lot of conflicting info, so I thought I'd just throw it out there to get some quick input. I think I'm just going to make a starter with the Propagator and see how she goes. I'll smack it today, make the starter tomorrow, and brew on Sunday. We'll see what happens! Thanks for the input, hope your first batch comes out great!

 

[MgMt_Home_Brew]

I read that thred, but seemed like a lot of conflicting info, so I thought I'd just throw it out there to get some quick input. I think I'm just going to make a starter with the Propagator and see how she goes. I'll smack it today, make the starter tomorrow, and brew on Sunday. We'll see what happens! Thanks for the input, hope your first batch comes out great!

If you have a propgator there is nothing to smack!

However if your packet is the skinnier one that says "Propogator Pack" then yes make a starter and don't go crazy trying to break anything in the packet because there is not a nutrient packet in there.

Good Luck

 

[DeuceK]

Just want to say thanks to all of you for the much needed and appreciated advice, it was very helpful. I brewed on Memorial Day and posted a new thread to summarize: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f37/first-home-brew-memorial-day-cherry-wheat-121033/