First Extract Wit

[Irisheyes]

Hey Guys. I recently brewed a simple wit from extract. Here's the recipe. I'm from Ireland and so have used metric recipe measurements - but you hopefully get the general idea

2 kg. Dry Wheat Spraymalt
1 kg Light Spraymalt
21 g. Hallertau Hersbucker boiled 60 min.
16 g. Saaz boiled 15 min.
25 g. Curacao Orange Peel (dried) (10 min)
14g Indian Corriander seed, crushed (10 min)
Yeast : WLP400 (no starter - pitched straight from the vial)
Pitched a little high at 75 F and fermented between 68 - 71

Fermentor volume 22 l

OG 1055
FG 1010

I let it ferment out for two weeks. Fermentation was insane for like two days and then would slow down. I had read that this was normal with WLP400 and so swirled the fermenter gently every few days to keep the yeast in suspension and active. Everytime it was swirled crazy head would form and one time it blew out the airlock. It smelled great the whole time - kind of like an orange yoghurt. I tasted a little after a week and it was coming on great - still sugary but unmistakeably an immature wit .
In any case it finally stopped bubbling after two weeks so I took a gravity and it came out at 1010. I tasted the gravity sample and it had a really strong treacley flavour. It tasted almost sweet but not like a sugary sweetness - and the gravity backed this up, given that it wasn't that high. The treacle flavour was overpowering. I've left it in the fermentor for another two weeks in the hope that the yeast might help to clear this flavour up but haven't tasted yet to find out (the fermentor is in my girlfriend's apt as I don't have room in my place). I plan on bottling this weekend. The smell from the airlock isn't as nice as it used to be, a little more harsh, a little less mellow and a bit sulphury but I wouldn't say it smells bad. Any ideas what the funky flavour might be? I'm not sure what phenolic or estery smells/flavours are like so it's hard to determine if this is a result of a normal WLP400 fermentation gone wrong.

 

[BenjaminBier]

I'm not the expert here, just brewed a few wits, but my experience is that the spicing really effects the smell until the beer matures.

One of my wits last year when it was really hot in the summer came out of the fermenter with the dreaded pork-chop smell but it eventually cleared up in the bottle.

 

[unionrdr]

OK,I looked up the WL400 yeast on midwest supplies site. It says that it is "slightly phenolic & tart". Ideal temp range 67-74F,with low to medium flocculation. 71-74% attenuation.
Intended for a 5 gallon starter,in 5-15 hours at 70F. It also says to pitch into aerated wort at 70-75F. It says further,if fermentation is complete,bottle it or transfer the fermentor to 40F for one week to cold condition. Bottling or transfer to cold should take place 14-30 days after brewing.
Sounds a heck of a lot like lagering to me..

 

[Gats]

I'm not very experienced (my second ever brew is fermenting right now). My first brew was a witbier and it did get a little funky tasting as the time to bottle came closer. I bottled after two weeks and started tasting the beer after 8 days in the bottles. The carbonation really dried out the beer and most of that funky flavor was gone after 8 days in the bottle. After about 12-14 days in the bottle the beer was fantastic- no off flavors. I don't think you have anything to worry about.

 

[Irisheyes]

Cool so you think it'll just mellow out in the bottle? I was sickened that it was tasting so funky. My girlfriend loves wit beer but she was completely disgusted by the taste of it. She tasted it without telling me before I took the recent gravity reading and was nearly going to throw it out! I can't imagine pouring that much beer down the drain - it nearly brings a tear to my eye. Looking forward to tasting it this weekend - maybe the yeast has cleaned up the nastiness

 

[unionrdr]

I mentioned this very observation in another thread. It's wild how the beer goes through a few stages with color,flavor,etc. Bottle aging Is a natural extension of this. but,wheat beers are supposed to mature a bit faster than,say,a pale ale.

 

[midfielder5]

just bottle it, put it away for 3 full weeks and start making another batch!

 

[gomb]

WLP400 needs a month in the bottle, at least thats what ive experienced everytime. Your recipe looks spot on, so i would relax and put it away for a month or 2 and it will turn out fantastic as long as your temps/sanitation were in order.

 

[Homercidal]

Yeah, I remember when I used that. Tasted real good after a little wait. I had gotten used to Nottingham yeast for the "American" style wit, ala Blue Moon. The actual wit yeast had a tartness and funkiness that wasn't quite right for a couple of weeks.

 

[Irisheyes]

Ha yeah well I kind of jumped the gun and bought the ingredients for a second very similar batch what with the first tasting coming out so nice. Hence I was properly headwrecked when it turned so treacley because I thought I'd thrown good money after bad. In any case hopefully the gamble pays off and it turns out nice like you guys are suggesting and we'll be drowned in lovely wit for the foreseeable future :drunk

 

[unionrdr]

Maybe my wife & I should visit? She loves wheat beer in many forms. I could pound a few myself.

 

[Irisheyes]

Yeah no bother - head on over if you don't mind a bit of treacley wit. Course you could always just drink the Guinness . . .

 

[unionrdr]

I'm sure it'll be fine after 3 weeks or so. Those spices may need to mellow out a bit. Besides the yeast used. Now if I could just afford 2 pane tickets...

 

[Irisheyes]

Right so it's been in the bottle a week now. Seems to be carbed fine but still tasting sweet as hell. It may mellow out some more but I think it's definitely too sweet (or at least a perceived sweetness - don't think that there's much sugar left). Maybe it's underhopped? Thought I was on the money with the hops given that wit isn't supposed to be overly bitter. It was a partial boil (about a third of the final volume) so maybe the hops utilization suffered? Planning a similar brew soon - do you guys think I should up the hops?

 

[lotusworker]

Time is your friend. I would just stick them somewhere and forget about them and try it after a couple of weeks.

 

[Gats]

Sorry to hear that you're not loving your witbier. A couple thoughts:

I've had success with late extract additions. From my understanding this lessens the chance that malt will caramelize in the kettle. For my wit I added 1 lb DME with 30 minutes remaining and 5.5 lbs LME (40%wheat 60%Barley) with only 15 minutes remaining. I time the 15 minutes after the wort has returned to a rolling boil.

You could probably add more hops. I've used up to 2 oz for a witbier without any perceivable flavor or aroma. You could also just boil more of the hops for 60 minutes and add less flavor/aroma hops.

 

[Gats]

Just started drinking this one a few days ago- came out great!

I did a 3 gallon boil and added the malts late.

Steep .5 lb flaked wheat and .5 lb flaked oats for 30 minutes in enough water to cover the grains. Take the grains and add as much water as you can boil. For me thats about 3 gallons.

tettnanger .75 oz 60 min

saaz .75 oz 60 min

1 lb light DME 30 min

5.5 lb 40% wheat 60% barley LME 15 min

cracked coriander .25 oz 5 min

dried bitter orange .5 oz 5 min

At flame out:

saaz .25 oz

cracke coriander .25 oz

dried bitter orange .25 oz

cracked peppercorns (optional- subtle peppery finish) .1 oz (.i oz might be hard to weigh. I counted 20 pepper corns)

yeast- WLP400 fermented at 68-70 F for 2 weeks no secondary

bottle conditioned with 3.7 oz table sugar for 2 weeks

 

[Irisheyes]

Hey Gats. Thanks for the advice. In the second batch of wit I brewed more recently I upped the hops considerably, added one third of the extract at the start and added two thirds with fifteen min remaining, like you did with your brew. It turned out less malty than the first batch. Still a bit more malty than I would like but that might mellow out more (it's still only been in the bottles a week).
So do you boil your bittering hops in water with no extract for the first thirty min? I read somewhere that some extract is required in the water to get good utilization but there seems to be conflicting views and a lack of consensus on the whole boil volume/boil gravity issue with regard to utilization. I think I'm going to play around myself and try to draw my own conclusions with my own system. If this works for you then I might give it a try and only add extract at the halfway point. I suppose utilization in plain water is possible since that's the basis for a hop tea (or is a tea for flavour/aroma addition only?)

 

[Gats]

I didn't boil the hops in water alone. I had steeped the flaked wheat and oats first so there were some proteins and sugars I suppose (not much though). I'm new to this so I don't know a whole lot about hop utilization. You're right, there are a lot of conflicting points of view on this subject.

Also, what was your FG? Mine was 1.012.

 

[Gats]

Never mind- your FG was in your first post.

 

[Irisheyes]

Glad to hear your wit turned out nice. Is it citrussy like hoegaarden or a bit more mellow? I think my malty beer is down to a hop issue. I'm forced to use a really sh*t electric stove for my boils which won't boil three gallons unless I wrap the pot in three handtowels and leave the lid mostly on ( I know, I know). I'd love to get a turkey fryer for full boils but being broke and living in Ireland (we don't really have them over here so I'd have to get it shipped over. Deep frying an entire turkey is not something I've experienced - I'm guessing it's nice if seriously unhealthy. Our weather is also a bit crap and I don't have a covered porch for brewing outdoors) means that I'll be using the stove for the foreseeable future. I'd probably be better off lighting my own flatus under the brew pot