FIrst ever beer- problem with S.G.

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I was under the impression that lots of bars use beer gas for everything because they have really long serving lines and so need really high pressures that would overcarbonate the beer if it was straight CO2. I was also under the impression that you still need a stout faucet to get the creaminess.
 
Now, after my first ever brew (which is in bottles aging now), I have some observations.

The ingredients for beermaking are more expensive than winemaking or distilling.
It was a bit of a sticker shock that the yeast starts at $5 and goes up to $15 per batch. I calculated my first beer batch cost me about $2/bottle of brew. $1/bottle for ingredients, and $1/bottle for the bottle itself. This is exactly what I pay for imported Irish stout in the store.
I know it isn't all about cost, but it would have to taste better than store-bought if it costs the same...
I also learned that small batches are not worth the hassle-it takes just as much time to mix, boil, ferment, and bottle 50 bottles as it does 14.

I also learned that bottling the beer is a hassle - no wonder many members here have CO2 setups. I don't know where I'd put 50 bottles to age, while being sure that if one exploded it wouldn't ruin the house or the other bottles. I have my 14 bottles in a Rubbermaid cooler in the hall closet, an explosion would scare the crap out of us, but won't make a mess. I couldn't fit 50 bottles in there.
Pricing a CO2 tank, regulators, keg, valves/couplings, and dispenser, rough estimate of $500. I could never drink enough beer to get my money's worth so unless things change, I'll continue to bottle.

My next batch won't be for awhile-I want the first batch to age about a month so that I can see how it turned out. I can't judge the final product by tasting warm, flat beer, but it wasn't bad tasting so I'm hopeful.
 
I calculated my first beer batch cost me about $2/bottle of brew. $1/bottle for ingredients, and $1/bottle for the bottle itself. This is exactly what I pay for imported Irish stout in the store.
You should be able to reuse the bottles multiple times, so your cost will drop on future batches. But unless you brew often enough to buy ingredients in bulk it won't drop much more.
Pricing a CO2 tank, regulators, keg, valves/couplings, and dispenser, rough estimate of $500.
Check Craigslist, Facebook Marketplace, etc.
 
I don't know where I'd put 50 bottles to age, while being sure that if one exploded it wouldn't ruin the house or the other bottles.
With a solid end of fermentation process and a solid bottling process, both bottle bombs (boom) and gushers when opening bottles are not a problem.

If you are serious about staying with bottling in the near future, start a new topic, asking for what people do when they bottle.

If the forum administrators are willing to keep the topic tightly focused (aka no mention of 'just go kegging'), I may be willing to offer my insights there.
 
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It was a bit of a sticker shock that the yeast starts at $5 and goes up to $15 per batch. I calculated my first beer batch cost me about $2/bottle of brew. $1/bottle for ingredients, and $1/bottle for the
The first batch is costly. The second batch can be way less costly as you have already paid (in dollars for new bottles or time cleaning used) plus you do not need to use new yeast for each batch. When you brew a batch of beer the yeast multiply and you end up with about 4 times as much as you started with. Rack off the beer, stir up the yeast with some boiled and cooled water, then collect the yeast, dividing it into 4 sanitized jars which you refrigerate. Next brew day, pour off the excess water and pitch the yeast.
 
I first started brewing a little over 10 years ago, but I only switched to kegging recently. If you ARE concerned about keeping costs down, it is a lot more economical to do 5 gallon batches (or 10 gallon batches). I constantly reused bottles for years and years and years and years. The only time I bought new bottles was when all my current bottles were already filled. When I switched to kegging, I also switched to 3 gallon batches. And I'll admit that I tend to make beers that aren't exactly cheap. If I wanted to go just for tasty and inexpensive, I could just do a SMaSH (single malt, single hop) beer or buy in bulk (which is cheaper). I do tend to collect and store hops and I keep a decent amount of yeasts I know I'll use soon on hand. It mainly comes down to what you value. I do understand the people who brew 5 or 10 gallon batches because it takes about the same amount of time to brew any amount of batch so they want to go bigger.
 
The first batch is costly. The second batch can be way less costly as you have already paid (in dollars for new bottles or time cleaning used) plus you do not need to use new yeast for each batch. When you brew a batch of beer the yeast multiply and you end up with about 4 times as much as you started with. Rack off the beer, stir up the yeast with some boiled and cooled water, then collect the yeast, dividing it into 4 sanitized jars which you refrigerate. Next brew day, pour off the excess water and pitch the yeast.
Yeah, I do save yeast from sour mash batches, I have a few jars in the fridge from this past summer. You can keep a strain going for several ferments, but after multiple generations, it tends to mutate away from its original properties. Most of the time I don't bother b/c Champagne yeast is so cheap to buy. Looking at the price of beer-making yeasts, I would definitely save it for multiple batches.
 
I found through experience that aging most wines for 1 year improves them enough that it makes it worth the wait though some wines (dandelion) takes 2 years. I "Googled" how long to age homemade beer in bottles and got responses ranging from 3 weeks to 3 years. It seems like darker beers (stouts) benefit from longer aging. How long do you age dark beers/stouts in a bottle? I'm not impatient, but if it is ready to drink in a month, I don't want to wait 2 years before my bottles are ready to reuse. I'm no wine or beer snob, and I've sampled the same batch of wine after a year, and after 5 years and couldn't tell the difference.
Aging any fermentable seems to be a curve-drastic improvement after a set amount of time, small improvement after another set amount, then minimal/no improvement after that.
 
I usually bulk age my imperial stouts for 3-4 months before bottling and then bottle condition for another month. They do mostly seem to keep getting better until the batch is done, which sometimes can be another year. I'm not sure that a lower ABV dry stout would benefit so much from aging. Maybe someone with more experience with that style will chime in.
 
My Belgian dark strong style beer always tastes better with at least a couple or three months ageing, (usually just aged in bottle, not bulk aged). And sometimes they just keep getting better, others peak soon after. From what I understand (from brewers that know more than me), it's going to vary depending on how much dissolved oxygen is introduced in your process, the specific recipe, etc.

I usually chill and open a bottle every couple of weeks to sample. When I get the taste I'm hoping for, I'll stick a good portion of the batch in the frig to slow down any possible oxidation, etc.
 
My Belgian dark strong style beer always tastes better with at least a couple or three months ageing, (usually just aged in bottle, not bulk aged). And sometimes they just keep getting better, others peak soon after. From what I understand (from brewers that know more than me), it's going to vary depending on how much dissolved oxygen is introduced in your process, the specific recipe, etc.

I usually chill and open a bottle every couple of weeks to sample. When I get the taste I'm hoping for, I'll stick a good portion of the batch in the frig to slow down any possible oxidation, etc.
I've decided to do that this first batch. I'm going to open a bottle after 3 weeks, then wait longer...When I can't tell much improvement, I'll refrigerate the rest.
I know from experience that with wine, it peaks after a certain amount of aging, then any more and it isn't really much better. I know people who swear that 3 years aging brings out flavors, but I really can't tell much difference after a year, except some that start out "nasty" longer aging does seem to help.
 
I found Palmer's opinion in How to Brew, E4 interesting. It seems to go against conventional wisdom. He said "In general, I think the idea that strong beers should be aged for a period of months to develop peak flavor is a myth. ... Ideally, beer should be at the peak of flavor after sufficient maturation in the primary fermentor. Any improvement in flavor after that, in my opinion, tends to indicate that the fermentation (including maturation) could have been better." He does allow for exceptions in some styles some where oxidation is beneficial.
 
I found Palmer's opinion in How to Brew, E4 interesting. It seems to go against conventional wisdom. He said "In general, I think the idea that strong beers should be aged for a period of months to develop peak flavor is a myth. ... Ideally, beer should be at the peak of flavor after sufficient maturation in the primary fermentor. Any improvement in flavor after that, in my opinion, tends to indicate that the fermentation (including maturation) could have been better." He does allow for exceptions in some styles some where oxidation is beneficial.
This is exactly what I was looking for- If people blindly follow the "months/years" aging b/c they read it somewhere, that is not scientific. If people say "I followed such-and-such recipe and it was definitely better after X weeks but I noticed no improvement after...Y weeks" then that is from experience. As I said, it isn't impatience, but the fact that I'm tying up all of my bottles aging it. I'm opening a bottle after 3 weeks to check flavor and carbonation, they go from there...If it is good than fine. If it is mediocre, then I'll age it longer checking each week to see how it's doing. It's my first batch and a crappy beer won't necessarily get better aging 2 years.
 
If people blindly follow the "months/years" aging b/c they read it somewhere, that is not scientific
Of course, blindly following Palmer isn't necessarily scientific either. In fact, it's a lot more like people doing something because they read it somewhere. Beer ain't wine, and aging either one on wood (for example) isn't the same as just keeping it sitting around for a while for the hell of it. So I guess I should have mentioned that when I bulk age my big beers it's always on wood, or fruit, or something. And I bottle condition them longer because high alcohol, high gravity beers take longer to carbonate.
 
If you want a hoppy beer, younger is generally better, within reason. Peak flavor in 1-2 months ~

If you have malty beer, it varies. Some are good fresh (e.g. most milds are good young IMO), and some are really great after 3-6 months. Shakespeare Stout tastes better after 6mo, IMO, but that's partially because I like the hop flavor to lessen.

Some big beers are actually better with long, slow oxidation, and tend to be good for 3-5 years if well handled. My Belgian neighbor procures Westvleteren 12 bottles of varying ages (and graciously shares!), and I'd say most have been good up to 5 years, and noticably worse after that.

The best part about having 50 bottles (if bottling) is getting to experience the beer as it ages. You'll hear a lot of people here say that the last bottle was the best one, so that's something.
 
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Of course, blindly following Palmer isn't necessarily scientific either. In fact, it's a lot more like people doing something because they read it somewhere. Beer ain't wine, and aging either one on wood (for example) isn't the same as just keeping it sitting around for a while for the hell of it. So I guess I should have mentioned that when I bulk age my big beers it's always on wood, or fruit, or something. And I bottle condition them longer because high alcohol, high gravity beers take longer to carbonate.
Correct. I was more impressed that he "experimented" with tasting along the aging process rather than saying "XYZ says Lager has to age for 2 years" without seeing if it is true. I know much of the "taste preference" is about how particular one is. I've had Stag's Leap $100/bottle Cabernet Sauvignon and I've had Barefoot Cabernet Sauvignon wine for $7/bottle. Small subtle differences yes, but not $93 worth! I guess I'm not sophisticated enough. I think with all my brew experiments, I'll taste a bottle here and there to figure out for my palet where the point of no improvement is.
I have aged wines and Sour Mash in toasted barrels, and YES aging in a toasted cask greatly improves flavor,and it does take time, but that is b/c transfer of flavor inside a wood cask takes a long time. Honestly, wood chips in a closed container is faster.
 
How much flavor will change in a beer over time depends on the style of beer (and then more specific traits of that specific beer and how it was made). For some styles, the changes will be subtle. For others they will be DRASTIC. As others have said, hoppy beers are best drunk young because those hoppy characteristics diminish with time. A heavily dry-hopped beer 1 week after packaging vs. 1 year after packaging are going to taste worlds apart. Sour beers that were packaged with the bacteria and wild yeast alive in the bottles will continue to get more sour as time goes by, so the beer immediately after packaging vs. a few years later will be like two completely different beers (and which is better will depend on your tastes. Tons of over-the-top sour beer fans will prefer the 3-year-old crazy sour version).

What Palmer is specifically talking about there is high-alcohol beers. It's generally accepted that beers with high ABVs (say 10%, for example) require time to mellow out and often taste too boozy early on (fusel alcohols or whatever). Over time, the flavors meld together and the alcohol becomes less offensive (ideally, not offensive at all). From my read of what he's saying, though, is that those beers just need "sufficient" time to mature in the fermenter before being bottled (and I'm guessing that "sufficient" could be less than "months"). And my experience does go on both sides. Most high ABV beers I've made have needed a few months to taste "right." But the exception have been double IPAs and triple IPAs I've made that actually tasted pretty good just 1 month off from brew day. So I guess it's complicated.
 
UPDATE:
It's been 19 days since I bottled this brew, so I opened one. The carbonation level is about perfect. The flavors are still a bit "harsh" but definitely drinkable. I'm going to age it and test one/week to see what is optimal. The only comparison I have is making wine- and I know from experience that freshly bottled wine is "harsh" compared to letting it age, so I'm going to assume the same for the stout. I broke my low-scale alcohol meter so I don't know what the final ABV is, but based on the unscientific "buzz meter" in my head, it is close to 11.
 
UPDATE:
It's been 19 days since I bottled this brew, so I opened one. The carbonation level is about perfect. The flavors are still a bit "harsh" but definitely drinkable. I'm going to age it and test one/week to see what is optimal. The only comparison I have is making wine- and I know from experience that freshly bottled wine is "harsh" compared to letting it age, so I'm going to assume the same for the stout. I broke my low-scale alcohol meter so I don't know what the final ABV is, but based on the unscientific "buzz meter" in my head, it is close to 11.
You can't get accurate readings using an alcohol hydrometer (proof/tralle hydrometer) with beer. They are only accurate when testing mixtures containing only water and ethanol. Finished beer contains water, ethanol, proteins, dextrins, and multiple other components that cause higher SGs than mixtures with the same amount of water and ethanol but nothing else.

Brew on :mug:
 
You can't get accurate readings using an alcohol hydrometer (proof/tralle hydrometer) with beer. They are only accurate when testing mixtures containing only water and ethanol. Finished beer contains water, ethanol, proteins, dextrins, and multiple other components that cause higher SGs than mixtures with the same amount of water and ethanol but nothing else.

Brew on :mug:
Yeah, no big deal with beer...more important with distilled products.
 
I would focus more on basic technique and less on science. You don't have to be completely on top of every detail to make beer. You are apparently building up a wealth of knowledge which may be distracting you from fundamentals.

I think you should do what I used to do for lab classes. Write out a numbered list of brewing steps, check it, and follow it.

Personally, I would keep this beer if I had room for it AND I liked it. Otherwise I would dump it. It looks pretty far from Guinness, and there are plenty of good stout recipes you could replace it with.

I wonder if you are confusing draft Guinness with bottled Extra Stout, which is heavier and gassed with CO2. Draught Guinness is a light beer which is low in alcohol, and it's dispensed with beer gas. The draught has an FG of about 1.011.

You will definitely want beer gas and a special faucet if you want the real, creamy draught stout experience. Can't get it with CO2. There is a way to fake it with a syringe.

Kegging is expensive at first, but it's much better than bottling, which requires much more work and may put beer on your ceiling.

You just need a 5-pound tank, a regulator, and a stout faucet.
 
I would focus more on basic technique and less on science. You don't have to be completely on top of every detail to make beer. You are apparently building up a wealth of knowledge which may be distracting you from fundamentals.

I think you should do what I used to do for lab classes. Write out a numbered list of brewing steps, check it, and follow it.

Personally, I would keep this beer if I had room for it AND I liked it. Otherwise I would dump it. It looks pretty far from Guinness, and there are plenty of good stout recipes you could replace it with.

I wonder if you are confusing draft Guinness with bottled Extra Stout, which is heavier and gassed with CO2. Draught Guinness is a light beer which is low in alcohol, and it's dispensed with beer gas. The draught has an FG of about 1.011.

You will definitely want beer gas and a special faucet if you want the real, creamy draught stout experience. Can't get it with CO2. There is a way to fake it with a syringe.

Kegging is expensive at first, but it's much better than bottling, which requires much more work and may put beer on your ceiling.

You just need a 5-pound tank, a regulator, and a stout faucet.
I understand, but I have a scientific mind so I always chase the science in a new project. I wasn't trying to clone a Guinness, after reading the recipes for Extra Stout with the expensive ingredients and having to have nitrogen, special equipment, etc. I didn't want to go down that rabbit hole. I just wanted a dark, full-bodied stout-like recipe b/c I'm not a huge fan of light, pale yellow beer.
I bought my grain with a limited knowledge of beermaking, so a fellow Homebrew member gave me a recipe that I could try using what I already had. As I said, the end product was drinkable. It has now been over a month so and I've begun drinking this. My observations are that it has adequate carbonation, and decent flavor, but is still a bit "harsh". I'm not sure what it is, but probably the fact that I put a whole ounce of hops into a half-recipe didn't help. I made a few mistakes in this first attempt and wrote everything down in a notebook for the next time. I do know that it was a lot of time and work for just 14 bottles, so I will do a 5gal. recipe next time b/c it isn't more work or time and you end up with more product. I just didn't want to end up with 35 bottles of undrinkable beer on my first attempt.
 
I just didn't want to end up with 35 bottles of undrinkable beer on my first attempt.
I think that was a smart decision. My first beer was pretty awful, mainly due to fermenting it too warm since I didn't have any way to control the temperature and the ambient temperature went from something like 70F to 90F in the day after I brewed it. But that's the great thing about the whole process. You learn and improve. Even if this batch is sub-par, you're sure to be making a stout or porter that you really like in no time.
 
stouts and porters in my opinion are much easier to make than pale beers because the roasts hide not just yeast off flavors but also hop utilization/oxidation problems and even general oxidation . if you have poor hop utilization or even under or over hopping, the roasts can hide that. and if you lose hop flavor from oxidation it isnt much of an issue cause imo stouts are the least hop forward (that dont sound right) beers.

oxidation can even help some stouts age. esp strong dark ones. old out of date expired extract can still be used to make decent stout .

i hate to disagree with clint but i def wouldnt dump it esp if its drinkable. that beer will be great with a lot of time like 6 months at least. put it away for a year . it will be really good.

also i disagree on the nitro tap. i would only go nitro if i first went regular co2. to jump into nitro requires a different reg, tank, and tap than other beers and what if you dont like to only drink stouts/porters. putting beers others than stouts/porters on nitro changes them too much.
 
Agree Fluketamer. Dark. strong beers (stouts) are powerful enough in flavor that they cover minor problems. It's like drinking a dark espresso vs. drinking a tea. The espresso covers various problems more than a light colored tea. I would say that commercial Guinness Extra Stout has a major flavor of "coffee". My "stout" tastes like "Starbucks" coffee, ie. slightly burned. It is all gone as of this evening, so was definitely drinkable. I wish it had a "caramel" note, and a tiny bit less "burned" or bitter note, but I'll adjust the next recipe and see...
 
Agree Fluketamer. Dark. strong beers (stouts) are powerful enough in flavor that they cover minor problems. It's like drinking a dark espresso vs. drinking a tea. The espresso covers various problems more than a light colored tea. I would say that commercial Guinness Extra Stout has a major flavor of "coffee". My "stout" tastes like "Starbucks" coffee, ie. slightly burned. It is all gone as of this evening, so was definitely drinkable. I wish it had a "caramel" note, and a tiny bit less "burned" or bitter note, but I'll adjust the next recipe and see...

A good stout (that isn't trying to clone Guiness) definitely needs some medium caramel/crystal malt in it. 5% is a good place to start. I've never used Sterling hops, but it looks like that is usually only used for adding a hoppy aroma, not bittering, so recommend you get some East Kent Golding or Willamette hops, and then use software (like Brewer's Friend) to tell you how much you need (for a full 60 minute boil), to reach a bu/gu of around 0.6, and don't even bother with late or dry hopping.

If you want more of a chocolate/mocha flavor (and less burnt coffee), a great "dark grains base" is about 5% chocolate 350L, 4% roast barley 300L, 2% pale chocolate.
 
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As I mentioned, I "blind bought" my grains/hops without much research thanks to a bit too much moonshine one night. I purchased two 1oz packs of Sterling Hops, and a pound of German Spalt Pellet Hops.
I plan to pick up some crystal malt when I get the opportunity. I have BeerSmith 2 as software, but have also tried Brewer's Friend.
 
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