first cyser, failure. fermentation stopped.

[selfdestructed]

Well, I have an issue. My first cyser is stuck.

15 lbs clover honey
5 gallons apple juice
Juice from 1 lemon
1 packet ec1118.

Mixed honey with juice. Put in bucket.
Hydrated yeast as the instructions. Added to bucket after an hour.

Bubbled in pail, never in airlock.

Stirred well daily for 3 days.

1 month in:

OG 1.10
FG 1.034

it tastes like cough syrup.


I planned to put it in a 6 gallon carboy with a gallon of juice to top it off, but it is sitting at 8%.

Can it be fixed. My LHBS DOESN'T have much in the way of cool yeasties and energizers.

 

[fatbloke]

Firstly, given the ingredients, you should be thinking of testing the pH.

Honey and water musts are usually acidic enough, but as you made a cyser must, and on top of that, added lemon juice, well I'd have thought that would have been enough to give you a pretty low pH.

To make things worse, the pH tends to swing about quite wildly in mead/honey musts as the CO2, well some of it, is in solution as carbonic acid, plus other acids that occur during a fermentation (gluconic acid among others I believe).

So if the pH has dropped below about 3.0pH, then the yeast is likely to stuggle.

With a starting gravity of 1.100, EC-1118 should be able to take it dry.....

p.s. Oh and the medicinal taste is something that will normally age out of it......

 

[selfdestructed]

How do I test the pH, how do I raise it.

 

[fatbloke]

How do I test the pH, how do I raise it.

Well I used a pocket pH meter, but you can used paper test strips, as long as you have some way of confirming the accuracy i.e. calibration fluid or even distilled water. To raise it, calcium carbonate, I believe it is....... but a quick search will confirm it......

 

[tweake]

i think the big problem is lack of nutrition.
need to get something in there even if its boiled brewers yeast.
really need to get some DAP or a replacement for it.

 

[fatbloke]

i think the big problem is lack of nutrition.
need to get something in there even if its boiled brewers yeast.
really need to get some DAP or a replacement for it.

Probably not DAP, but your boiled yeast (or yeast hulls) suggestion would probably help.

Though I'm thinking that confirmation of pH is the first step, as that will tell us if that's the immediate cause.

If pH is too low, then it wouldn't matter how much additional nitrogen was added, the yeast wouldn't be able to do it's thing......

 

[huesmann]

Would a single lemon in 5.5 gallons be all that acidic?

 

[Bugeaud]

Did you consider lack of aeration? (AKA The Easy Way: shaking the crap out of your must)

 

[fatbloke]

Would a single lemon in 5.5 gallons be all that acidic?

Of course not, but given how low a pH can be in a must or how much it can swing during a ferment, it could easily be enough to cause an issue.

Likewise possible lack of nutrients and/or aeration.........

 

[selfdestructed]

Ok, I had some ph strips from my spa, poured dome on that, pH is below 5.

I did stir the must. I did not use nutrient.

My LHBS has more EC1118. They also have nutrient.

I can buy stuff to raise pH online.

 

[selfdestructed]

Added a second pack, stirred it up daily for three days, now 1 bubble per 15 seconds. Of course its an ale pail, so the bubbles aren't the only indicator

 

[selfdestructed]

tested it today, it's now 1.021. I am okay with that, but I wouldn't mind getting a yeast that can restart ec1118, something to increase the pH and let it go some more.

Oh, and this medicine taste, yuk, this may become some very expensive toilet water if this taste doesn't go away.

 

[tweake]

ec1118 is a common one used to restart stuck brews. its about as robust as they come.
simply add a little nutrient and you will find it will fire back up into life easy enough.

you would need a ph well under 3 before it becomes a problem. apple tends to stabilize the ph a well so i doubt very much its a problem even with the extra acid added.

the med taste will just take a long time to age out.

 

[selfdestructed]

So, I was told that 15 pounds of honey and 5 gallons of juice was 1.1 og. It's 1.018 now. I have used 2 packs of ec1118 and 2 tbs of nutrient. I feel like the fg should be lower. How can I restart it?

the plan is to rack onto 3 vanilla beans and 3 cinnamon sticks, in carboy.

I want it to sparkle. If the yeast is putteted out, what kind of yeast can I add this fall, to get it to restart, to carb it?

Do I add a new yeast? How much?

 

[tweake]

did you measure the OG ? or was that the predicted OG?
it depends a lot on what % sugar is in the honey and apple juice. measuring by volume is inaccurate.

i would stick it in the carboy now if you havn't done so already.

you are already using a champagne yeast which is meant for adding the fiz to the wine.
you simply just add a bit of priming sugar to the bottle. however thats assuming its dry and low enough alcohol.
both of that depends entirely on how accurate you OG is.
i would forget about wanting it to sparkle for now. you are having enough problems with the basics as it is without making bottle bombs.

your best bet here is to rack it into carboy and leave it for a year. its going to take some time for that hot flavor to age out.

 

[selfdestructed]

Not having much trouble, 3 months in, the gravity is 1.018. The issue is that my hydrometet measures my cider well, but doesn't go I past 1.1. It floated, but the numbers stop at 1.1, I didn't anticipate that. It had lost the medicine flavor and is starting to taste great.

My big issue is that it should go lower. If it does go lower, the alcohol should hit 18%.

I was advised that my cyser will still be sweet, because I used do much honey.

Also fine.

My major question is that if it hits 18%, what yeast can I use to start some fermentation?

I am great at making sparkling cyder, and I lose one bottle per 48 when I pasteurize.

I just need what yeast to add to carb it. I still has to sit fire at least 6 more months in the carboy. I haven't added cinnamon and vanilla yet.

 

[tweake]

ok it think whats stuffing things up here is you should have written "OG above 1.10"
the honey alone will make it to 1.10 and the apple will make it higher again.

there is a good chance its already hit 18% or close to it. 1.018 is ok if you like it sweet. nothing wrong with it. but it will mean you won't be able to make it sparkling using yeast.
theres very few yeasts that go above and most probably won't be able to start at that alcohol level. because its not dry if you did get a yeast going you run a very large risk of bottle bombs.

i would leave it and see what it like after 6 months.

 

[selfdestructed]

Ok

 

[GinKings]

Apple juice and honey vary, but I'd guess your OG was somewhere around 1.124. With a current SG of 1.018, you're somewhere's around 14% ABV. I'm only making an estimate, but it's probably in the 13-15% ABV range.

I did the math quickly, so please correct me if I screwed up. Guesstimated 5 gallons juice at 1.046, honey at 36 points per lb, and 6.25 gallon batch size.

 

[huesmann]

FWIW my own spreadsheet puts 15 lb of honey and 5 gals of apple juice at 6.28 gallons, with a SG of 1.125. Using various ABV formulae, I get anything from 14.2% to 16.0%.

 

[tweake]

Apple juice and honey vary, but I'd guess your OG was somewhere around 1.124. With a current SG of 1.018, you're somewhere's around 14% ABV. I'm only making an estimate, but it's probably in the 13-15% ABV range.

I did the math quickly, so please correct me if I screwed up. Guesstimated 5 gallons juice at 1.046, honey at 36 points per lb, and 6.25 gallon batch size.

i put that in the calc. juice can make a big difference. anything from 18% to 13% depending on sugar content of the juice.

 

[truckjohn]

Another question that no one here asked... What sort of temperatures are you fermenting at? It's winter time in the Northern Hemisphere... If you are fermenting in a closet, basement, garage, or even with the carboy sitting up under a sink against an outside wall etc - there's a pretty good chance it is quite cold... and most wine yeasts really do better somewhere between 70-80F....

You may as well degas and rack it off the lees... I would continue aging under an airlock - just in case it decides to start back up when the weather warms up in May or June.... It will taste way better if you let it sit anyway....

On the OG.....
Sure... There theoretically *Could* be big differences in the juice brix... This primarily happens when you press your own apples....

My experience is that "Store" juice usually runs right at 1.05 brix.... and "Farm stand" juice runs pretty close to that... usually within 1 or 2 points...

Now... If you are really curious - pull the bottle back out of the trash and back-calculate the Brix from the sugar grams per serving..... My experience here is that it's usually pretty close to the Hydro....

Thanks

 

[selfdestructed]

72. It tastes great, gonna rack today.