First 'custom' recipe. Trying an Extract APA. Suggestions/comments?

[Jwpj]

Hello all,

I have done about 3 extract batches so far. All have been recipes or clones, and so for my next brew, I am attempting to create my own recipe. Let me preface this by saying I am nowhere near an expert, and gathered most of my resources through experience/forums/etc.

I will be doing an extract APA. Can anyone please offer me any pointers/suggestions? I would really appreciate the advice.

Thanks!

Recipe:

Spec Grains:
1lb Crystal
.5lb Biscuit
.5lb Munich Light

Hops:
1oz Magnum (60min)
1oz Willamette (15min)
1oz Liberty (5min)

7.5 lb Golden Light LME

White Labs 001 California Ale yeast

From Calculator:

OG: 1.057
FG: 1.013
ABV: 5.76%
IBU: 45.46
SRM: 10.79

 

[sptaylor70]

Your hops choices are interesting. It's more traditional to go entirely with continental-(e.g. Magnum, Liberty) or entirely with English-(e.g. Willamette) style hops, or in the case of an APA, entirely American (e.g. Cascade, Centennial, Cluster, Chinook) hops. For good examples of APA hopping schedules, see Biermuncher's Nierra Sevada, Ed Wort's Bee Cave Haus Pale Ale, or Yooper's House Pale Ale. This is not to say that yours won't be good, but rather that it's non-traditional and that if you've had several APAs, yours will probably turn out rather different from the ones you've tasted.

Which Crystal malt(s) do you intend? The higher the number, the more caramel flavor you'll get.

If you have any difficulty finding WLP001 at your LHBS, you might look at WLP041 Pacific or WLP051 West Coast as options.

 

[chickypad]

I agree with the above, not that it won't be good just that those hops are more subtle varieties and not what you find in your typical APA. Unless you're entering it in competition, though, no reason you need to adhere to style. I've heard of folks steeping biscuit and munich but to get the most out of them you probably want to do a little mash. You could throw in a lb of 2-row with what you've got and "steep" in about 4 qts of water in the 152-156 range for 45 min to an hour.

 

[Jwpj]

This is not to say that yours won't be good, but rather that it's non-traditional and that if you've had several APAs, yours will probably turn out rather different from the ones you've tasted.

I know that traditionally, it is a 'best practice' to go continental with hops. I chose the hops because they all have an 'earthy' characteristic to them. Maybe modifying to this would be better?:

1oz Columbus 60min
1oz Columbus 15min
1oz Chinook 5min

Which Crystal malt(s) do you intend? The higher the number, the more caramel flavor you'll get.

I planned on using 45L, but maybe going to 60L? Suggestion?

If you have any difficulty finding WLP001 at your LHBS, you might look at WLP041 Pacific or WLP051 West Coast as options.

Thanks! Usually, my LHBS has a pretty good selection, but it is always good to have options just in case.

probably want to do a little mash. You could throw in a lb of 2-row with what you've got and "steep" in about 4 qts of water in the 152-156 range for 45 min to an hour

...This is the direction I eventually want to go with my beer. I don't know if I'll ever have the time to do completely AG, but I would love to try a mash. Unfortunately, when you start talking mash, I get.....lost. What is a 'little' mash? Is it similar to 'steeping' the grains, but just holding the temperature consistent?

Thanks for the input!

 

[sptaylor70]

I don't care anything about "best practices" - I just want you to make something that you'll enjoy. If you think that your combination is going to work, then feel free to tell us to jump in the lake. I'll be brewing an APA myself, later in the spring, with Falconer's Flight as the bittering hops and Cascade for flavor and aroma (or vice versa). Not crazy about Chinook in any application, but some folks really like its "dank" quality. You could look at Glacier as a bittering hop - supposed to have an earthiness. My local brewpub use Columbus for bittering with good results (although, to be fair, their APA gets reclassified as an IPA in competitions).

Crystal 45L and 60L both give a good caramel flavor. Either will work fine for this application. Notice that Ed Wort uses C10L, while both Yooper and Biermuncher use C60L in combination with something lighter. There's almost always more than one way to skin a cat.

The best online tutorial on mini-mash that I've seen is this one, by Deathbrewer. Mini-mash opens up several styles to you that extract won't give you. You might also look into getting a good, up-to-date, home brewing book. I can recommend the 3rd edition of Papazian's The Joy of Home Brewing.

 

[chickypad]

Yes, mashing is really steeping at a more controlled temp and water to grain ratio, and including a base malt with the enzymes to convert starches to sugars. Basicially what I described in the last post. Mini-mash or partial mash is where you do a smaller mash with part of the recipe and make up the rest with extract. I would also recommend getting something like a 5 gal paint strainer bag (usually a couple bucks at HD or lowe's), so that you can stir the grains and they are very loose in the pot. When the mash is done you lift the grains and squeeze the bag. To get more sugars you can rinse the grains (sparge) by putting the bag in a colander over the pot and slowly pouring about another gallon of water over them (with water about 168*). Another way to sparge is to dunk the whole bag in about 1-1.5 gal of 168* water in a second pot if you have one big enough. Or you can skip the sparge, in which case it would be okay to use more mash water. Typical ratio is 1.25-1.5 qt per lb of grain, if not sparging you should be safe to go about 2.5-3 qt per lb. Eventually you will want to learn about water and pH, but as long as your water is not way out of whack you will likely be okay to start. You could also use spring water.

Deathbrewer has a sticky in the beginner's forum, or this link helped me when I was first starting out (It's old though, the pics don't seem to load).


For hops, the "best practice" depends on what you are trying to achieve. Continental hops would be the noble and noble-like hops, traditionally what you would find in German and Belgian styles for example. They are more delicate in flavor and tend toward light floral and spice. Liberty is an American hop but in character is more like Hallertau. Willamette is also an American hop good for late additions, but it is descended from English Fuggles, with some earthy/spicy characteristics rather than the big tropical fruit and citrus of other American hops. If more restrained, earthy/spicy is what you want them by all means go with your first choices.

A columbus/chinook beer is going to be quite different, but more like a typical American PA. Columbus is earthy I guess, but more dank than anything and fairly potent. Chinook will give you big pine and some grapefruit.


Edit: sp kinda beat me to it, slow typing

 

[Jwpj]

Thanks to you both for your insight! I know that best practices aren't always necessary, however, as someone who is just starting out, I don't want to do anything too crazy.

I've gone through the recipe, and made some changes. If you guys have any comments/suggestions, please let me know what you think.

Recipe:

1lb American Pale 2 Row
1lb Crystal 60L
.5lb Biscuit Malt
.5 Lb Munich Light

Mash at 153 degrees (Strike at 165) for 45 minutes and transfer to boil kettle. Sparge grains for 10 minutes, and add the mashed wort to the sparge water. Bring to a boil, and remove from heat.

Add 7.5lb Golden Light LME

Bring back to a boil and add:
1oz Chinook 60min
1oz Cinook 30min
1oz Chinook 10min
.5oz Cluster 5min
1oz Cluster Dryhop

Chill wort to 70 degrees and pitch yeast:

WLP001 California

Ferment in primary for 14 days, rack to secondary and dryhop for 7 days. Bottle.

OG: 1.063
FG: 1.015
ABV: 6.35%
IBU: 69.93
SRM: 12.15

Please tell me what you guys think. I decided to go with Chinook as a bittering/flavor because it tends to be earthy/piney with a slight citrus hint when bittering. I went with cluster for aroma/dryhop, because of the floral notes.

The only thing I'm worried about is that the ABV may be too high for an APA?? I don't know, maybe since I am so new to brewing, but this beer seems like it would come out as more of an IPA?

 

[PGEduardo]

I'd recommend US-05 dry yeast since you're fairly new. It's a great strain of yeast for pale ales, and won't require a starter, unlike liquid yeast. It has allowed me to focus more on fermentation control than starters without sacrificing yeast quality.

Make sure to control your fermentation to around 65* if you can. Chilling it to 70* and then letting it go at ambient will not be ideal. Search swamp cooler here.

 

[sptaylor70]

I'll second US-05. I've never seen the point of using a liquid version of the Chico yeast, and US-05 is a great yeast. Temperature control is important, but US-05 gives you some latitude there.

I ran your recipe through Brewer's Friend and only got 59 IBU, which puts you squarely in the range of an IPA. Which might be exactly what you're looking for. APA tops out at around 45 IBU. If you want to cut it back to that level, you could reduce your 60-minute and 10-minute hop additions to a half-ounce each, giving you closer to 40 IBU.

 

[chickypad]

You're definitely into IPA range there. I happen to love chinook for bittering my IPA's because I like the sharp bitterness it provides, but some folks find it harsh just so you know. I actually think I'd skip the 30 min addition and put it later like maybe half at flameout and half in the dryhop, it gives a nice piney aroma when used late. That should also cut down your IBU's a bit. Can't speak to the cluster I've never used it, I thought it was mostly used as a bittering hop these days. You may want to add the bulk of your LME at flameout which lots of folks do to avoid overdarkening the wort and possibly cutting down on "extract twang".

 

[Jwpj]

Thanks for all the suggestions! This stuff will really help, as this is all fairly new to me!

A couple of questions.

I'd recommend US-05 dry yeast since you're fairly new. It's a great strain of yeast for pale ales, and won't require a starter, unlike liquid yeast.

Is this particular to APAs? I ask because I've used White Labs before on IPAs and a Heizenbock, and I've never made a starter first. They've always turned out fine.

Make sure to control your fermentation to around 65* if you can

Could I ferment lower? My basement is pretty much always between 62-64. If the lower temp won't hurt, I'll ferment there.

I ran your recipe through Brewer's Friend and only got 59 IBU

This is odd... I used brewers friend and got almost 70IBU. Maybe it's because I wasn't really sure how to estimate efficiency, so I set it at 50%.

If you want to cut it back to that level, you could reduce your 60-minute and 10-minute hop additions to a half-ounce each, giving you closer to 40 IBU

I completely removed the 30min addition, and now Brewer's friend is reporting just under 43 IBU, however, still using 50% efficiency, so not sure what to do there.

You may want to add the bulk of your LME at flameout

Will adding the LME after the boil affect the alcohol content of the beer? Also, when you say you would add the majority after the boil, how much do you mean? 2/3? 1/2?

Thanks again for all the help!

 

[PGEduardo]

Re: first two questions

With a 5 gallon batch, you most likely under-pitched. If your beer turned out fine, it would have turned out better with proper pitching rate. It's not the manufacturers, it's the number of yeast cells you pitch to promote ideal fermentation conditions.

Your ambient temps seem fine, but vigorous fermentation can significantly raise the temperature of the beer. You need to monitor and control to the actual temp of the fermentation vessel (or liquid temp ideally bit they're usually pretty close). Hence swamp cooler to promote steady ferm temps at ideal temps.

Cool wort to fermentation temp, aerate well and pitch properly hydrated US05. Control actual fermentation temp and your beer will turn out amazing, not fine.

 

[sptaylor70]

You probably did underpitch. The Mr Malty pitching rate calculator is a handy tool for determining how much yeast you need to pitch, and how much of a starter to make. An 11 g package of dry yeast has a higher cell count than a vial or package of liquid yeast. So what matters is that it's dry, not that you're making an APA.

Your basement should work fine, but you'll be better off putting your fermenter in a water bath at your target fermentation temperature (i.e. your basement's temperature). Adding a swamp cooler setup will drop your temperature another 5+ degF, and if your basement is 62 degF, then you'll be lower than your yeast will prefer (low 60s is good for most ales, high 50s is the range where Koelsch and altbier yeasts work well).

The brewhouse efficiency doesn't affect your IBUs, but rather the OG, based on the amount of grain that you're mashing (Generally, for a lowish gravity wort, I assume 75% brewhouse efficiency). The control for IBU for a given hopping schedule, is your boil volume. If you accept the default "All grain" then the boil volume is set to 7.5 gallons. If you change to "Partial mash", then the boil volume sets to 3 gallons.

I think that you'll be happier cutting back on the additions rather than removing one entirely. I like few IPAs, but the Dogfish Head x-minute series, which are continuously hopped, are an exception. More, smaller additions seems to work better than fewer, bigger additions.

Adding extract after the boil doesn't affect ABV so much as it affects how much caramelization you get. Anything in the 50/50//before/after ballpark is going to work fine.

A good home brewing manual is going to help you with many of your questions.

 

[Jwpj]

Hello everyone,

Just wanted to check in with an update. I picked up all the ingredients from my LHBS on Saturday, and I plan on starting in a few days once my Heizenbock moves to the secondary.

Here is what I decided to go with:

Partial Mash APA:

1lb 2 Row
1lb Munich Light
1lb Crystal 60L
1lb Biscuit
7.5 lb LME

Mash at approx 153 degrees for 45 minutes in 5qt water. Sparge at 170 degrees. Add water to approx 3 gallons and boil. Add 1/2 LME at boil, 1/2 at flameout.

Hop Additions:

1oz Chinook at 60min
1oz Chinook at 15 min
1oz Cluster at 5min
1oz Cluster Dryhop

Cool wort to 70 degrees and pitch yeast (Safale American Ale Yeast US-05).

10 days in primary. 7-10 in secondary.

OG: 1.074
FG: 1.021
ABV: 6.99
IBU: 40.83
SRM: 13.26

(from brewers friend).

Tell me what you guys think. Thanks again for the comments/suggestions!

 

[sptaylor70]

APAs usually don't have an OG over about 1060, so you have a big APA.

What you show there has about 9% biscuit. At 5%, biscuit is noticeable, and over 8% it can become intrusive (unless you really like biscuit and that's what you're aiming for).

Looks fine. Post your result.