First custom recipe - Pale Ale...thoughts?

[Pale Ales and Such]

Hello,

I just started home brewing with craftabrew recipe kits but I haven’t found what I’m looking for in a beer. My favorite beer I’ve had so far has been Buoy’s Pale Ale from Astoria, Oregon and so I’ve done a lot of research into making my own first recipe. Before I begin buying ingredients, I wanted to get others take on this recipe I’ve developed...keep in mind I’m just doing 1 gallon batches

malt (all crushed)
Munich - 1.6 ounces
Pale - 1.6 ounces
crystal - 1 ounce
30 minutes steeped at 155 degrees

Dry malt extract:
Pilsen - 1.5 lbs

hops:
Mt hood(bitterness)
60-minute boil
1.5 ounces

Willamette - aroma
2- minute boil
1 ounce

yeast:
Wyeast 1332

Priming:
Corn sugar

fermentation time:
2 weeks

bottle time:
2-3 weeks

does anyone have any thoughts on this recipe and if I should give it a go? Again: new to brewing and have only used recipe kits.

Thanks for any advice

 

[D.B.Moody]

I had to look up Bouy's Pale Ale. Its description does include Munich malt. I do not understand why you selected Pilsen malt over pale malt. Also, the description suggests that the hops should be Centennial & Cascades or such. I know nothing about the yeast you picked, but it's name suggests a good selection. I'm a dry yeast person, so I use US-05 for this type of ale. Welcome to the hobby and HBT. You sure dived right in.

Edit: @BrewnWKopperKat is right about the amount of hops. I missed that.

 

[Pale Ales and Such]

I had to look up Bouy's Pale Ale. Its description does include Munich malt. I do not understand why you selected Pilsen malt over pale malt. Also, the description suggests that the hops should be Centennial & Cascades or such. I know nothing about the yeast you picked, but it's name suggests a good selection. I'm a dry yeast person, so I use US-05 for this type of ale. Welcome to the hobby and HBT. You sure dived right in.

Thank you so much for the reply and info! I have the brew masters bible book and was reading on hops and saw mt hood and willamette (which are based out of Oregon) so I wanted to give them a shot with this recipe to see how it taste. The book description of those two hops seem to be fine for what I’m trying. As for the malt extract, I didn’t know a good one to use so I just went with what my recipe kit called for in the last batch I brewed. I will try pale malt, as it sounds like a winner here. The yeast was one I saw in a lot of my research online and it seemed like a good one to use for my end result. I will do some more research on my yeast since that is where I have some issues in understanding which one would be the best to use for what result I want with my brew.

thanks again for your reply and details. I am so excited to have started my journey into brewing beer!

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Welcome to Homebrew Talk!

PALE ALE | Buoy Beer Company : 5.2% ABV, 38 IBU, OG 12º PLATO, FG 2.3º PLATO (Plato to SG conversion link). Description reads like a classic Pale Ale - so similar to Sierra Nevada Pale Ale.

Recipe grain bill in percentages (helps others scale down the recipe): 85% Pilsen, 6% Pale, 6% Munich, 4% Crystal. OG ~ 47 @ 75% efficiency.

3.5 oz of hops is too much (1.5 oz hops @ 60 and 2 oz @ 2). Software estimated IBUs (assuming 4 AA hops) is around 100. I agree with @D.B.Moody that Cascade and/or Centennial would be a good initial starting point. If you haven't looked into recipe software, Brewers Friend is on of a couple of good options (check out the Brewing Software forum for additional ideas).

You didn't mention anything regarding water. Take a look at this article (link) - it will give you an approach for starting with water adjustments on your first batch.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

With regards to yeast selection

OG 12º PLATO ==> SG 48​

FG 2.3º PLATO == SG 11​

the apparent attenuation is 77% [ (48-11)/47 ]. Wyeast 1332 is suggested to be in the 67-71% range.

US-05 or Nottingham would be dry strains that I would consider.

 

[Pale Ales and Such]

@BrewnWKopperKat - this is awesome. Breaking down the yield is really gonna help me with my ratios when I try doing the recipe via my 1-gallon Carboy. That is so good to know about the IBU...that is a little high for what I want lmfao. For water, I am using spring water.
For the yeast, I will try the US-05 since you’re the second person to recommend it. As for my hops, what problems (if any) can I run into with mt hood and willamette? I will do centennial and cascade for a first batch run but was curious about those two in future batches

thank you for your reply and providing those links btw. This is just making beer making for me much more exciting

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

As for my hops, what problems (if any) can I run into with mt hood and willamette? I will do centennial and cascade for a first batch run but was curious about those two in future batches

There are a couple of sites that offer summary information on hops (Hopslist is one that I use periodically, Yakima Valley Hops would be another good source for hop information).

With Mt Hood and Willamette, the descriptors are over in the 'spice' and 'floral' categories. They should make a good pale ale but won't have the ' bright citrus flavor ' that you are looking for.

 

[Pale Ales and Such]

Ok, following the advice here and using the brewers friend software, I’ve updated my recipe specs as follows...let me know what you think:


Grains:
1.5 oz - Munich Malt (6)
1.5 oz - pale 2-row malt (1.8)
1 oz - American caramel / crystal 120L malt (120)

DME:
1 lb - Briess DME Pilsen light (2)

Hops:
0.25 oz - artisan centennial (9.7 AA): 60 minute brew for bitter

0.25 oz - artisan cascade (5.8 AA): 2 minute at end of brew for aroma

Water: spring

Yeast:
Fermentis - Safale - American Ale Yeast US-05

Estimate output:
5.5% ABV
47.66 IBU
7.35 SRM

this seems to be pretty close to what I would enjoy. Please give me your thoughts

 

[DBhomebrew]

What are you getting out of the 1.5oz each of Munich and 2-row? Have you looked at Munich LME? It's a 50/50 Munich/2-row extract. That would keep your grain addition as a strict steep vs a very small partial mash. I did a Munich LME Belgian pale that came out very nice. It could've used just a touch of sweetness, your C120 would have been perfect.

For extract brews, you might want to source distilled or RO water in lieu of spring water. The extract will bring all the minerals you need.

 

[Pale Ales and Such]

What are you getting out of the 1.5oz each of Munich and 2-row? Have you looked at Munich LME? It's a 50/50 Munich/2-row extract. That would keep your grain addition as a strict steep vs a very small partial mash. I did a Munich LME Belgian pale that came out very nice. It could've used just a touch of sweetness, your C120 would have been perfect.

For extract brews, you might want to source distilled or RO water in lieu of spring water. The extract will bring all the minerals you need.

oh wow, I thought distilled wasn’t really recommended but if the LME brings That over then that makes total sense. For my need, I’m trying to relocate “buoy: pale ale” as close as I can, and the receipt appears to contain those grains. I’ve not done a brew with LME yet just DME, thus my decision to try that first.

If I stay with my recipe, how do you expect it to come out flavor wise? I’m not totally familiar with the many different flavor profiles of the grains and malts

 

[DBhomebrew]

LME vs DME doesn't affect much, they're interchangeable in most ways. With LME, you want to be doubly sure you are getting the freshest product. It's also not a 1:1 by weight, DME is more concentrated.

You're looking at a process decision if you choose to keep the pale and Munich grains. Both of those need to be mashed, not just steeped. It's not difficult, it's just another level of complexity you may not be interested in getting into yet. You'd be stepping out of "extract + steeping grains" into a "partial mash."

Looking at Bouy's description, they call out pale, Munich, and crystal. Your pilsen extract is a holdover from a previous recipe? If it were me, and I didn't want to get into partial-mash, I'd swap the pilsen DME for the Munich LME. That would give you the pale (2-row) and Munich leaving the crystal/caramel for the steep. Crystal/cara malts need not be mashed. Process-wise you'd be doing the same thing you have been with your kits.

Do you happen to have any idea of Bouy's grain percentages? Maybe ~48/48/4 pale/Munich/crystal is just what the doctor ordered. If I had rebrewed that Belgian pale, this is pretty much what I would've done.

Best thing about a 1G batch is that the chance to adjust the recipe for a rebrew comes up so quick!

 

[Pale Ales and Such]

LME vs DME doesn't affect much, they're interchangeable in most ways. With LME, you want to be doubly sure you are getting the freshest product. It's also not a 1:1 by weight, DME is more concentrated.

You're looking at a process decision if you choose to keep the pale and Munich grains. Both of those need to be mashed, not just steeped. It's not difficult, it's just another level of complexity you may not be interested in getting into yet. You'd be stepping out of "extract + steeping grains" into a "partial mash."

Looking at Bouy's description, they call out pale, Munich, and crystal. Your pilsen extract is a holdover from a previous recipe? If it were me, and I didn't want to get into partial-mash, I'd swap the pilsen DME for the Munich LME. That would give you the pale (2-row) and Munich leaving the crystal/caramel for the steep. Crystal/cara malts need not be mashed. Process-wise you'd be doing the same thing you have been with your kits.

Do you happen to have any idea of Bouy's grain percentages? Maybe ~48/48/4 pale/Munich/crystal is just what the doctor ordered. If I had rebrewed that Belgian pale, this is pretty much what I would've done.

Best thing about a 1G batch is that the chance to adjust the recipe for a rebrew comes up so quick!

I unfortunately do not know about their grain percentages. But like you said: doing 1 gallon batches really makes it easier to handle if I need to rebrew. I think I’m gonna take your advice and do the LME. Doing additional research online, that seems to be a good way to go about this. I appreciate all the info and replies, this is really helpful in getting an ideal beer for me and my wife.

 

[DBhomebrew]

Let us know how it turns out!

 

[Pale Ales and Such]

Let us know how it turns out!

Will do! I just tried the recipe on brewers friend with the Munich LME and it’s a little too on the dark side for me. I’m thinking of substituting the Munich LME for a lite LME (4). Thoughts?

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

brewers friend with the Munich LME

How much Munich LME where you using?

eta: when color is a factor with extract based recipes, starting with a pilsen-style DME/LME is one of the keys.

 

[DBhomebrew]

You'd be losing the Munich's malty flavor if you cut it out completely. Maybe a blend?

If you're concerned about keeping color down, you can move a portion of the extract addition to the end of boil. You'll need some at the start for hop utilization, but holding a good amount to the end will reduce browning.

Edit: Also in regard to color, maybe a lighter cara? Are you really looking for the darker flavors of C120? What does moving to C60 do to color?

 

[Pale Ales and Such]

You'd be losing the Munich's malty flavor if you cut it out completely. Maybe a blend?

If you're concerned about keeping color down, you can move a portion of the extract addition to the end of boil. You'll need some at the start for hop utilization, but holding a good amount to the end will reduce browning.

Edit: Also in regard to color, maybe a lighter cara? Are you really looking for the darker flavors of C120? What does moving to C60 do to color?

Yeah, that did it. Moving the crystal from the 120 to the 60 made it just where I like it. I’m doing 1.5 lbs of the Munich lme, and 1 ounce of the crystal 60. What will that do in regards to flavor?

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

I unfortunately do not know about their grain percentages

Assuming Buoy’s Pale Ale is similar to Sierra Nevada Pale Ale (and other pale ales of that sub-sub-sub-sub category), 85% base malt, 10% munich, and 5% crystal (40/60) may be an interesting starting point.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

For water, I am using spring water.

With regard to water and DME/LME, How to Brew, 4e has solid advice. Start with water that is low in minerals (distilled, RO, some spring waters) and optionally 'season to taste' with some kettle additions of gypsum and/or calcium chloride. The book Brewing Engineering offers some insights into 1) which brands of DME/LME may work better for different styles of recipes, and 2) amounts of kettle additions that may work well some of those brands (each brand of DME has a different mineral composition).

 

[bwible]

LME vs DME doesn't affect much, they're interchangeable in most ways. With LME, you want to be doubly sure you are getting the freshest product. It's also not a 1:1 by weight, DME is more concentrated.

In terms of gravity contribution a pound of LME will contribute appox 38 gravity points per pound per gallon where DME will contribute approx 45 points per pound per gallon.

The original recipe has 1.5 lbs DME. In a straight 1 gallon recipe this would give you a gravity of about 1.067 which will give around 6.5% - above the 5.2 target.

In terms of use and storage, DME is easier to work with as you can buy a 2 lb bag or a 3 lb bag and measure out what you need and easily reseal the bag and save the rest. LME comes in 3.3 lb or 3.5 lb cans and being a thick, sticky syrup it is not as easy to work with - especially for 1 gallon batch brewers.

Hops are way over the top as others said. I use less hops than that for a 3 gallon batch. Hops have an Alpha Acid percentage which varies year to year according to how they grow. So get used to listing that, since Mt Hood 4% would be different from Mt Hood 5.5% - again especially at a 1 gallon level.

Find a recipe calculator, there are free ones online like BeerTools - and you can buy the software when you want.

 

[bwible]

Assuming Buoy’s Pale Ale is similar to Sierra Nevada Pale Ale (and other pale ales of that sub-sub-sub-sub category), 85% base malt, 10% munich, and 5% crystal (40/60) may be an interesting starting point.

I typically also use Victory malt in my pale ales.

 

[Pale Ales and Such]

So, in the end, this is the recipe I’ve developed and will be trying:

1.5 lbs - Munich LME
.10 oz - American Crystal Malt (60)
.20 oz - centennial hops for bitter
.20 oz - cascade hops for aroma
Yeast - US-05

I will let everyone know how it goes. Brewers friend seemed to give me green check marks in all areas of an American pale ale so looking forward to seeing how this is going to go.

ABV - 5.6%
IBU - 39.31
SRM - 8.38

thank you all for the recommendations, replies and details on your thoughts. It is greatly appreciated

 

[Pale Ales and Such]

I’ve am also trying a recipe for an IPA I put together based on Pfriem’s IPA details that I could find:

1.75 lbs - Munich LME
0.5 oz - crystal light malt (38 L)
0.5 oz - crystal dark Malt (120 L)
.20 oz - Chinook hops for bitter
.10 oz - Mosaic hops for flavor
.10 oz - Citra hops for aroma
Yeast - US-05

estimated stats from brewers friend:
ABV - 6.58%
IBU - 56.27
SRM - 11.22

will reply to this thread once both batches are done to let everyone know how it comes out

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

@Pale Ales and Such , as a reminder (see #9), Briess Munich LME is 50% base malt and 50% munich malt. As I mentioned in #18, 85% base malt, 10% munich, and 5% crystal (40/60) is a more common grain bill.

Also, SRM with DME/LME seems to be hard to estimate. My experience with Munich DME (which is apparently no longer available I have not been able to find recently) is that the actual color (assuming fresh ingredients, measured properly in a glass, not in the fermenter) may be 4 SRM darker than the estimates you posted.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

1.75 lbs - Munich LME

I would expect this to make a rather dark and malty beer that does not sound like what you are looking for. Is that Munich LME from Briess? I have been curious about their Munich DME, but their Pale Ale DME produces a rather dark beer...and the Munich is rated darker and LME(Liquid) tends to be darker than DME(Dry). The picture below is of a 100% Briess Pale Ale DME beer.

Personally, I would just ignore the "Munich" from the label and swap your Munich LME over for either a Pilsnen/Golden DME/LME.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

I have been curious about their Munich DME

I used it a while back. Made a couple of enjoyable beers that were a blend of "golden light" and "munich" to get a 80%/20% two-row/munich malt. Howevever, I haven't been able to find Munich DME recently at the two online stores that I use.

I might brew some test batches with Briess's Caramel Munich 60L over the next couple of months. Product information suggests one can steep it and the flavor profile is different from their regular 60L.

 

[Pale Ales and Such]

Ok everyone, so I’ve done the following recipe and I have to say, very delicious. Came out nearly identical to what I was expecting. Very much a decent clone of Buoy’s Pale Ale

dry malt extract:
1.11 lbs - Pilsen DME

grains (steeped for 20 minutes)
1.31 oz - briess 2 row pale ale
1.31 oz - Munich 6 L
1 oz - crystal 60

Hops:
0.21 oz - cascade (2 min boil)
0.27 oz - centennial (60 min boil)

very delicious and very yummy. Thank you all for all the advice and wisdom you gave me in this thread. I’m much more confident as a 1 gallon home brewer than I was before!