First Cider

[jlinz]

Hello.

My idea for my first cider is the following: I use 3 gallon fermenters. So, dump 2.5 gallons of tree top in each and a pack of s-04 in each fermenter. I figured I would back sweeten in the keg by putting 1 AJ concentrate in the keg when racking. I plan to ferment around 62 degrees maybe for 3 or 4 weeks.

Does this sound like a solid plan? I honestly have never made one so any help is appreciated.

 

[ebbelwoi]

You could probably get away with a bit warmer temp, maybe 65-68, if you want. And rather than timing your fermentation, check the gravity every few days after the two-week point. My experience with S-04 is that it doesn't ferment down to 1.000. It seems to stop around 1.004, but maybe my hydrometer is miscalibrated. But generally, any yeast will ferment any and all sugar in the juice.

As for adding FAJC to backsweeten, the yeast will gobble that up and ferment it, too, leaving you with a higher ABV and the same sweetness level. I use cold crashing, then racking, then potassium sorbate to stabilize the yeast before carbonation.

 

[jlinz]

You could probably get away with a bit warmer temp, maybe 65-68, if you want. And rather than timing your fermentation, check the gravity every few days after the two-week point. My experience with S-04 is that it doesn't ferment down to 1.000. It seems to stop around 1.004, but maybe my hydrometer is miscalibrated. But generally, any yeast will ferment any and all sugar in the juice.

As for adding FAJC to backsweeten, the yeast will gobble that up and ferment it, too, leaving you with a higher ABV and the same sweetness level. I use cold crashing, then racking, then potassium sorbate to stabilize the yeast before carbonation.

Would the yeast still gobble up the fajc at keezer temps, say 42 degrees? My thought is that it would be slow so the cider would stay sweet for awhile.

 

[ebbelwoi]

Would the yeast still gobble up the fajc at keezer temps, say 42 degrees? My thought is that it would be slow so the cider would stay sweet for awhile.

That certainly sounds logical. I don't have any experience with keezers, but I'm sure someone else can chime in about that.

Good luck!

 

[Maylar]

Would the yeast still gobble up the fajc at keezer temps, say 42 degrees? My thought is that it would be slow so the cider would stay sweet for awhile.

If you allow the cider to fully ferment dry and rack to secondary to clear it to where there's minimal lees the remaining yeast will also be a minimum. You can then sweeten and keg it and if kept cold it'll be OK for a while. But some yeasts are perfectly capable of fermenting at 42° so the remaining yeast will likely continue to ferment your sweetened cider though at a slow rate. The key here is to be sure the cider is clear so the amount of yeast remaining is small. I've done this with bottle conditioned cider and didn't have any gushers even after a month in the fridge using S-04 yeast.

But as long as you're kegging, the surest method is to stabilize the cider with K-Meta and K-Sorbate when sweetening so the remaining yeast doesn't wake up.

 

[jlinz]

How do I use the k meta and k sorbate? Never done it before.

 

[Maylar]

K-Meta (potassium metabisulfite) at normally 1/4 TSP for 5-6 gallons and K-Sorbate (potassium sorbate) at normally 1/2 TSP per gallon will inhibit yeast growth so you can add sweetening sugar without worries about refermentation. For smaller batches K-Meta is available as a tablet called Campden and 1 crushed tablet per gallon works for the dose. You add these at kegging time along with your sugar.

 

[jlinz]

What if I back sweeten with apple cider that is preserved with something that will stop yeast. I’m not sure what they use but not ascorbic acid in some store bought cider and apple juice.

 

[ebbelwoi]

You're probably thinking of potassium sorbate. The concentration probably wouldn't be high enough in backsweetening quantities to prevent fermentation.

 

[jlinz]

If I put in frozen concentrate and campden when kegging should this do the trick?

 

[Maylar]

And potassium sorbate - that's what prevents the yeast from budding.

 

[Genuine]

I keep my kegerator cold enough and it doesn’t cause refermentation. I use 3-4 cans of Frozen Concentrate depending on taste.

 

[TechFanMD]

I keep my kegerator cold enough and it doesn’t cause refermentation. I use 3-4 cans of Frozen Concentrate depending on taste.

How cold? A lot of people keep their kegs at ~38-40F and that yeast will still ferment at those temps....however slowly. Probably not enough to cause a problem other than that beautiful, clear cider is going to get cloudy unless you drink it quickly.
I am not doubting you - but I would like to know (so I can do it) how cold you keep the cider that it doesn't ferment after backsweetening. Do you see any signs of refermentation at all (cloudy toward the end of the keg?)

 

[jlinz]

Well, I have some store bought apple juice fermenting with wlp 002 right now. I’m still a bit at a loss about what the process looks like from here, like when to drop the sorbate in and when to bacsweeten and how much, etc.

 

[TechFanMD]

Well, I have some store bought apple juice fermenting with wlp 002 right now. I’m still a bit at a loss about what the process looks like from here, like when to drop the sorbate in and when to bacsweeten and how much, etc.

Let it ferment until gravity samples are stable across a few days. With cider made this way - if it drops brilliantly clear you can be pretty sure it is done fermenting. The rack to a sanitized carboy and gently stir in the k-meta and potassium sorbate. Let sit for 24hrs or then backsweeten in the keg as you planned. I have a fridge full of this right now.

 

[jlinz]

Great! The only problem is I dont have a secondary. Can I rack into keg and put in the k meta and potassium sorbate, close it up for 24 hrs and then open it and put in the concentrate or will I oxidise it that way?

 

[Maylar]

That'll work. Just be sure the ferment is complete via making gravity readings.

 

[jlinz]

By the way, might put a bit of it in bottles. How do I carb in a bottle if I use the k meta and p sorbate?

 

[Maylar]

By the way, might put a bit of it in bottles. How do I carb in a bottle if I use the k meta and p sorbate?

You can't.

 

[Genuine]

How cold? A lot of people keep their kegs at ~38-40F and that yeast will still ferment at those temps....however slowly. Probably not enough to cause a problem other than that beautiful, clear cider is going to get cloudy unless you drink it quickly.
I am not doubting you - but I would like to know (so I can do it) how cold you keep the cider that it doesn't ferment after backsweetening. Do you see any signs of refermentation at all (cloudy toward the end of the keg?)

I keep mine around 33-36 When I have cider in there. Seems to be fine so far!

 

[jlinz]

Another questions to someone out there. Can I put the k-meta and k-sorbate into the keg at the same time with the concentrate I use to backsweeten? Or do I need to wait 24 hours and then add the concentrate?

 

[Maylar]

Another questions to someone out there. Can I put the k-meta and k-sorbate into the keg at the same time with the concentrate I use to backsweeten? Or do I need to wait 24 hours and then add the concentrate?

Yes, I do that all the time.

 

[jlinz]

Any worries about infection using frozen concentrate?

 

[Maylar]

Nope.

 

[jlinz]

Nice. Is it because it is frozen or because of the k meta and k sorbate? Just curious.

 

[jlinz]

The first cider was a hit! I used 002 and backsweetened as described in the thread. It was a crowd pleaser.

Fermenting my second one right now. I used S04 out of laziness. Just dumped it in dry. Hoping it too will be good!