First Chocolate Stout Help

[k_mcarthur]

I recently tried my first Chocolate Stout and love it. I have already purchased the grains and most ingredients needed with help from a recipe I found on beersmith, but I have a couple of questions. First what kind of chocolate should I use in the boil? Is this just unsweetened baker's chocolate. Second what yeast is the best for this style? The recipe calls for WLP007 Dry English Ale which I purchased with the grains, but I also have WLP001 Cal Ale that I plate and step up for my pale ales. I want a clean almost no flavors from the yeast, so which would be better? Also if anyone has any suggestions or input it would be greatly appreciated, here is the recipe:

7#Marris Otter Pale Malt
1#Caramel/Crystal Malt 80L
1#Chocolate Malt
8oz Roasted Barley

60min@156
10min@168

60min .75oz Northern Brewer
20min .25oz Goldings, East Kent
15min 1.25oz Chocolate
8oz Lactose
10min Irish Moss
0min 4oz Cocoa Powder
1tsp Vanilla Extract

Bottling .75oz Chocolate Extract(into keg)

This is going to be for a Christmas Party so I'm going to brew this weekend to allow for a couple extra weeks of aging, just wanted to get input from anyone with experience in this style.

Thanks

 

[ddrrseio]

recipe looks good, but i might use some oats or flaked barley to give it some feel.

as to the type of chocolate: i have used dutch process cocoa powder from penzey's and cocoa nibs from tcho in san francisco (separately and together). i tended to prefer the combo to either. the powder alone came off as sweeter chocolate and the nibs came off as dark, bitter chocolate.

 

[k_mcarthur]

Thanks for the info. What do you that think, half pound of flaked oats? Also the recipe specifies 4 oz of cocoa powder, I bought just the Hershey's from the grocery store is that not good enough to use here? The recipe also calls for 1.25 oz of just chocolate, but doesn't specify what kind. Is that where I would use the nibs?

 

[BigFloyd]

You can use unsweetened cocoa powder mixed dry with lactose and added at 10 min remaining in the boil. I like a 2:1 ratio of lactose to cocoa. 4-8 ounces of powder depending on how much chocolate influence you want. My last batch had 8oz cocoa/16oz lactose and was delicious.

I'm not sure that this will be fully mature by Christmas. 3+ months of bottle conditioning is best.

 

[k_mcarthur]

3 months aging? Yikes. I guess I've been spoiled by making mostly pale ales and wheats, most of them are great at like 5-6 weeks. I guess it will take what it takes. So do you think I should change the boil schedule by moving the lactose from 8oz at 15 min to 16oz at 10 min, remove the 1.25oz of chocolate at 15min all together, move 4oz of cocoa powder at 0min to 8oz at 10min? Ive looked at other recipes and that seems to be a popular schedule, I would just rather follow a recipe from a person who has done it and likes it instead of blindly following a random recipe posted on beersmith. Any suggestions on yeast? If it's not ready for party, then it will give me a reason for another party in January, like I really need a reason.

 

[BigFloyd]

If you mix the cocoa powder dry with the lactose in a bowl and then add enough warm water to make a slurry, brew life will be much easier. You can then simply stir it in at 10 min.

Dry yeast.....I'd go with S-04. Liquid.....WLP002/1968ESB is nice. Pitch at 60-62, begin the ferment at 63-64, then let it come up slowly to 68 after the first 4-5 days.

The extra conditioning time will reward you with a nice, smooth delicious brew.

 

[RonPopeil]

you said you'd like a neutral yeast so i'd use your wlp001. 007 is pretty clean but still has some estery british character which could also be good.

 

[k_mcarthur]

Thanks for all the advice. I'm looking forward to my first endeavor into the world of darker stouts.

Cheers!

 

[MindenMan]

Welcome to the Dark Side. hahahahahahaha! I do have an ipa recipe I like i'll post it here as soon as I can find it

 

[dcp27]

If it's not ready for party, then it will give me a reason for another party in January, like I really need a reason.

It will definitely be ready in time for an Xmas party if you pitch enough yeast and keep good temperature control. 3+ months may improve it, but is in no way necessary. I made something very similar last year in November and it was great for an Xmas party.

I don't think you can go wrong with either the 007 or 001 for this. I'd go for 8oz cocoa powder & 16oz lactose the last 10mins and ditch the chocolate. I'd opt for 1-2 vanilla beans instead of extract as well.

 

[k_mcarthur]

Thanks dcp27 for the suggestions. I went by my LHBS today and got 1/2# of flaked barley to add. I'll also follow your advice on ditching the bar chocolate and upping to 16oz of lactose and 8oz of cocoa. I do have vanilla beans, just add those at the end of the boil? I've also decided to go with the WLP001, maybe next time I will do the WLP007. Mashing in first thing in the morning, so here goes nothing! Jk, looking forward to my next new favorite brew.

 

[BigFloyd]

I'd sanitize the vanilla beans in cheap vodka and add at the last few days of the fermentation. Not in the boil.

 

[k_mcarthur]

Welcome to the dark side indeed!! Another successful brew day, 80% efficiency. Thanks to everyone for your advice. Looking forward to seeing how this comes out.

 

[MindenMan]

I have a concern, 2 weeks ago I added 8 oz of cocoa powder to a 6 gallon boil and the cocoa was really obvious. Today, I can't find it. There is a tiny chocolate finish, and I wonder if this will be another "surprise" batch. What I mean is the last chocolate stout, I used only cocoa nibs. I think 6 oz roasted in the secondary, and I did crush them and soak them in vodka for about a week. It is hard for me to remember exactly, but the flavor was kind of cheap chocolate candy with a vanilla overtone. There was no cocoa powder in that batch, so I can't compare apples with apples. I guess my real question is, for the brewers that have had great results with chocolate beers in the past, do you have any suggestions to keep me from wasting good ingredients this batch?

 

[k_mcarthur]

I just moved this chocolate stout into secondary to add vanilla beans and it tastes awesome. It has more of a coffee flavor but the cocoa powder flavor is there. The recipe calls for a couple tablespoons of chocolate extract at bottling, maybe that will pump up the sweet chocolate flavor we all know. I've also heard that vanilla helps to smooth all the flavors together.

 

[BigFloyd]

I just moved this chocolate stout into secondary to add vanilla beans and it tastes awesome. It has more of a coffee flavor but the cocoa powder flavor is there. The recipe calls for a couple tablespoons of chocolate extract at bottling, maybe that will pump up the sweet chocolate flavor we all know. I've also heard that vanilla helps to smooth all the flavors together.

If you put 8oz of cocoa powder in there, I'm afraid that another 2 tablespoons of chocolate extract may be a bit much. That stuff can be pretty powerful.

You want the chocolate flavor to be lurking in the background to come across nicely at the finish, not mugging and beating up all of the other flavors.

 

[k_mcarthur]

If you put 8oz of cocoa powder in there, I'm afraid that another 2 tablespoons of chocolate extract may be a bit much. That stuff can be pretty powerful.

You want the chocolate flavor to be lurking in the background to come across nicely at the finish, not mugging and beating up all of the other flavors.

Ok, thanks for the input. I will skip the extract. I like the "mugging" metaphor, made me laugh visualizing it in my head.

Do you think MindenMan could use extract at bottling to get the flavor back he lost?

 

[MindenMan]

As far as chocolate extract goes, I will roast some cocoa nibs, crush them and soak them in vodka for at least a week, and sparingly add the extract to the bottling bucket. A few months back, I brewed a Mild and at the five minute mark added two ounces of cocoa powder just to try it, and to add a little color. The chocolate flavor wasn't really there at first, and by week six or eight, the chocolate flavor was noticeable and smooth at the finish of every drink. Of course by that time, all but two bottles were left, and I gave one away.