First beer - gone wrong?

[Dybz]

Hi all,

I have a concern about my first batch being off and wondering if I should dump and try again or wait it out. Basically I brewed following the online version of the John Palmer guide about 2 weeks ago. My beer has been fermenting for the past 2 weeks in 68-69*F area of the house and all seemed to be going well. Yesterday was bottling day and I sampled the bit that I used with the hydrometer. The beer had a weird flavor... not sure how to describe it. The hop/bitterness came through quite well, but not much other flavor. Does this just mean that the beer has to still condition in the bottles or will not additional flavor develop? The beer itself smells great and is clear.

I did have a craving for more of it after sampling so I guess that's a good sign? I was a little worried about fermentation dying early so I tried swirling the bucket (I know, I know! leave the bucket alone! blame it on newbie eagerness). I also did not do a yeast starter, but just let the WYEAST baggy expand with the nutrient packet for a few hours - will definitely do a starter for the next round.

As for the beer/brewing itself, details below:

Lady Liberty Ale - American Pale Ale w/specialty grains

Recipe Form For: pale ale

Recipe Volume: 3 gallons

Yeast: american ale 1 packet from WYEAST

Malts: Amount Type
3.6 lbs pale malt extract (syrup)
4.8 oz crystal malt 60L

Calculated Original Gravity: 1.045

Hops: Amount (oz) Time (Minutes) Type % Alpha Acid
0.4 60 pellet 10.6
0.4 30 pellet 8.2
0.4 15 pellet 8.2

Calculated IBUs: 37

Procedure: boiled 1 gallon of water, put in fermenter, boiled 2 gallons, let cool to 160F, steeped crystal malt 60L for 30 minutes at 160F, brought to boil, mixed in LME, resumed boil (might have needed to wait longer, was only 195F when began time), began hop addition, cooled wort to 70F, pitched yeast into bucket (just 3 hrs in packet with nutrients), poured wort into fermentation bucket

Fermentation: after 24 hrs - very little activity, some bubbling, airlock shows higher pressure inside
26 hrs - crazy bubbling, until about 40 hrs, then stopped… tried to swirl bucket, started up again for about 10 hrs, then died down,
FG = 1.013, smells good, tastes hoppy and something off?

 

[webby45wr]

Everything looks good - don't dump your beer! You were tasting it uncarbonated, which may affect the flavor. It's also still "green". Give it another 3 weeks in the bottle and the flavors should meld a bit more.

This is a great resource: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/ne...virtue-time-heals-all-things-even-beer-73254/

 

[unionrdr]

When you see rapid bubbling slow or stop,that just means initial fermentation is over. It'll then slowly,uneventfully creep down to FG. Then another 3-7 days to clean up & settle out clear or slightly misty before racking to bottling bucket.

 

[Dybz]

Everything looks good - don't dump your beer! You were tasting it uncarbonated, which may affect the flavor. It's also still "green". Give it another 3 weeks in the bottle and the flavors should meld a bit more.

This is a great resource: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/ne...virtue-time-heals-all-things-even-beer-73254/

I had a good laugh at #2 in that link webby, thanks. I figured it was just not quite ready yet, but good to get another opinion as this is my first batch.

 

[KurtB]

The advise above is good, so I will just add on to boost your confidence.

CONGRATULATIONS! YOU MADE BEER (and it probably wasn't as hard at it initially seemed).

It is hard to tell what green/un-carbonated beer will taste like after it carbonates for a few weeks, even with practice.

Give the bottles about 3 weeks to carbonate, then pop a few into the fridge for a few days. Once the are cold, and the yeast has had a chance to settle out from moving the bottles around, carefully open one, pour into a glass leaving the yeasty stuff behind, and enjoy your beer.

If you still have some off flavors after they are carbonated, try to come up with the best description you can for what you are tasting and let us know. There could be some issues, but it is too soon to tell with your first batch and the description you gave us.

 

[twistr25]

Just for clarification, did you remove the crystal malt after steeping it or leave it in during the boil also?

Also, if it's a twangy taste, maybe slightly metallic/astringent, one quick way to get rid of it is to add the LME towards the end of the boil, 15 min or less, or even at flameout. LME is subject to malliard reactions which can give a weird taste. Just something to think about for next time.

Congrats on your first beer and it'll only get better from here!

 

[Dybz]

Just for clarification, did you remove the crystal malt after steeping it or leave it in during the boil also?

Also, if it's a twangy taste, maybe slightly metallic/astringent, one quick way to get rid of it is to add the LME towards the end of the boil, 15 min or less, or even at flameout. LME is subject to malliard reactions which can give a weird taste. Just something to think about for next time.

Congrats on your first beer and it'll only get better from here!

Sorry for not including that, but yeah I removed the crystal malt after steeping. I was reading through the various off-flavors described online, a bit astringent might be a good way to describe it. Hard for me to judge as I haven't had much experience obviously.

I have been reading John Palmer's "How to Brew" book and saw that he now recommends to put only ~1/2 the LME in at the beginning and the rest toward the end of the boil (in addition to a few other changes). Plan to follow the newer methods in the current edition of the book next time around.

 

[SteveM]

One very important rule is NEVER dump a batch. They will get better over time. Plus, don't judge a beer by a pre-carbonation sample. Sometimes they taste good at that point, but they can also taste sort of soapy.

I would also suggest three weeks in the fermenter, at least, but I've gotten away with two weeks once or twice. It can sit in their for three, four or five weeks and it only makes it better. You have to be able to stand the wait is all.

 

[ScottG58]

Do not dump. Beer changes as it ages. If, after your beer has aged in the bottle for a few weeks, you still think it has an off flavor, How to Brew has a section on off flavors that will let you make adjustments.

 

[cluckk]

Beer changes quite a bit as it ages. Also as was already posted carbonation will considerably alter the taste.

 

[LBussy]

My best ... beer ... ever ... was one that was a "bad batch". It froze because of a broken thermostat, then sat in that same kegerator unplugged over the winter because I forgot about it. I opened the fridge about 6 months after the freezing incident to find it there waiting for me. It was not a forgiving style, a bock, and it ended up going on to win several first place and a BoS (with an offer from a micro to run the recipe as a special).

So ... your beer sounds fine, you received good advice, and NEVER throw away a batch till it's green and chunky. At that point you make soups and brats with it.

 

[TheBS19]

Regarding the late addition of LME- does this apply to ALL fermentables (I.e. some belgian style kits that have candi sugar in addition to LME and DME)? Or should you always add the "other" fermentables in whole at the beginning of the boil as the kit recipes call for and just split the addition of LME (read in another thread to try 1/3 initially and 2/3 at flame out, which I was going to try on my next batch)?

Thanks!

 

[Dybz]

It seems like some people are saying that the beer should stay in the primary fermentor for 3 weeks, or am I misunderstanding this? I though the popular was to do it was 1 week in primary and then 2 in secondary? Or for a simpler method just 2 in primary? Or is the answer "it depends"?

 

[bretn]

It seems like some people are saying that the beer should stay in the primary fermentor for 3 weeks, or am I misunderstanding this? I though the popular was to do it was 1 week in primary and then 2 in secondary? Or for a simpler method just 2 in primary? Or is the answer "it depends"?

I don't think there's a complete consensus on this, but many, many brewers are no longer using secondaries unless it's to dry-hop or to add fruit or other additions. In my opinion any possible benefits aren't worth the contamination risks of transferring more than necessary. And, as others have said here, leaving the beer in the primary for a couple or a few weeks will give the yeast needs time to clean things up and you'll come out with a more mature beer that can be just as clear as a beer out of the secondary.

Edit: Here's a post on just that topic: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f163/secondary-not-john-palmer-jamil-zainasheff-weigh-176837/

 

[unionrdr]

Regarding the late addition of LME- does this apply to ALL fermentables (I.e. some belgian style kits that have candi sugar in addition to LME and DME)? Or should you always add the "other" fermentables in whole at the beginning of the boil as the kit recipes call for and just split the addition of LME (read in another thread to try 1/3 initially and 2/3 at flame out, which I was going to try on my next batch)?

Thanks!

I do it with DME & LME. Half a 3lb bag of plain DME in the boil for hop additions,the remaining DME & all LME at flame out. Gives lighter Color & cleaner flavor. Sugars,maltodextrin,lactose,etc can go in the boil the last 10 minutes or so to stir & dissolve.

It seems like some people are saying that the beer should stay in the primary fermentor for 3 weeks, or am I misunderstanding this? I though the popular was to do it was 1 week in primary and then 2 in secondary? Or for a simpler method just 2 in primary? Or is the answer "it depends"?

For me,the 3 weeks comes about with the time needed for the beer to hit FG. Then another 3-7 days to clean up & settle out clear or slightly misty. I don't secondary unless I'm adding something that gets along better without the yeast cake present. Like oaking or fruit additions. Saves extra cleaning & no risk of contamination or oxidation.

 

[Dybz]

I don't think there's a complete consensus on this, but many, many brewers are no longer using secondaries unless it's to dry-hop or to add fruit or other additions. In my opinion any possible benefits aren't worth the contamination risks of transferring more than necessary. And, as others have said here, leaving the beer in the primary for a couple or a few weeks will give the yeast needs time to clean things up and you'll come out with a more mature beer that can be just as clear as a beer out of the secondary.

Edit: Here's a post on just that topic: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f163/secondary-not-john-palmer-jamil-zainasheff-weigh-176837/

Good link, thank you.

Thank you to everyone that posted for the contributions.

 

[kryolla]

for a 3 gallon batch you dont need to make a starter. Did you also top off with water after the boil.

 

[Dybz]

for a 3 gallon batch you dont need to make a starter. Did you also top off with water after the boil.

I did not. I followed the online Palmer guide that just recommended starting off with an extra gallon or so of water for the boil for a 5 gallon batch. So that is a mistake in my record-keeping, as I actually used about 2.5 gallons during the boil.

 

[kryolla]

how big is you pot and your final volume should be 3 gallons correct. Do you know how much water you evaporated out during the hour long boil. Also you dont need to boil then cool it down to add your specialty grains.

 

[Dybz]

pot is a 5 gal. i think i undershot the final 3 gallon mark slightly. based on the number of bottles i was able to fill and just a guestimate at how much was left at the bottom of the fermentation bucket i would venture a guess at 2.8-2.9 gallons. i read about the adding water to fermentation bucket to make sure you hit your mark a bit late, so did not incorporate that method into my first brewing experience.

thanks for the note on the specialty grains.

 

[Dybz]

This past Saturday I decided to brew a porter. Went to the local brew shop, picked up ingredients per John Palmers Port O'Palmer recipe and during checkout the girl asked me if I want to mill the specialty grains there, which I proceeded to do.

How might this relate to the topic I posted about here? Well when the girl clerk asked me if I wanted to mill my grains, I immediately realized I had not milled or crushed the grains I steeped for my first batch. I tried one of the beers today - a bit early, but it still tastes off, but I can now explain the off-flavor a bit better: hops. All I taste is the bitterness and hoppy character of the beer. No maltiness, no sweetness, just hoppy bitterness and nothing else.

I will let the remaining bottles sit for a bit and drink them over time as all recommended, but is there any hope for this batch considering this flaw?

 

[KurtB]

It will make a difference, but possibly not as much as you may think. Because the grain was just steeped and not actually mashed there is not much conversion taking place. Let it ride and get fully carbonated before passing judgement.

 

[Dybz]

It will make a difference, but possibly not as much as you may think. Because the grain was just steeped and not actually mashed there is not much conversion taking place. Let it ride and get fully carbonated before passing judgement.

Good to hear. Thought the steeping process was much more vital to the final outcome.

 

[KurtB]

Good to hear. Thought the steeping process was much more vital to the final outcome.

It does add color and some flavors (like making tea), but not much in the way of fermentable sugars. Not crushing the grain will lessen the flavor, but probably not much.

 

[LBussy]

The flavors you lose are the unfermentable sugars. I would expect that the beer might be thin or more bitter than you intended because in part those balance the hops. Taste before you bottle and if its still markedly bad then you can always blend it with a batch with too much crystal and bottle or keg.

ETA: Never mind I see that it is bottled. What you have is beer, not the beer you intended. Some of that hop character may mellow a bit. If it ends up that you simply cannot drink it then a dunk in Starsan and pouring into a bottling bucket to mix with that other batch I mentioned is a possibility. Also remember that Porter came to be as a blended concoction. You can mix it half/half when you serve it as well. Or if you have a friend who is a hop head mention you have a "great India Export Porter" and let him chug through it while you drink the better stuff. Cooking with it is another possibility - I use beer and DME to parboil brats and onions before grilling - then caramelize off the onions as a topping. No sense in using your best beer for that.

As mistakes go this is not the worst one you could have done! If it's otherwise clean and well done it's probably better than a lot of the beers I've had to judge.

 

[Dybz]

I actually don't mind the flavor as I am that hop-head you speak of! My lady-friend did not enjoy it one bit, though. I don't mind drinking it, but it does seem much more bitter/hoppier than expected/desired. The beer itself had no chill haze after cooling so was happy with that, no true off-flavors and no contamination, so I am definitely happy with my first brew.

 

[SteveM]

Good to hear. Thought the steeping process was much more vital to the final outcome.

Ditto to what KurtB said - and you'll also get some macro-molecules that will aid in head retention.

 

[Dybz]

So small update... tried another one yesterday and it's definitely cleaned up a bit. No where near as bitter as before, but still seems to be missing out on malty flavor. Head retention is pretty good actually and stays clear when chilled - so I guess the brewing process itself went well! Already planning out where I'll be building my 3 tier brewing system and definitely excited to try out the porter that's sitting in the fermentor!