First batch... Ready to bottle! With a few questions...

[brandon27]

Hello Everyone,

New to the forums here, been lurking and reading for the last two and a half or three weeks while my first batch has been fermenting.

I'm doing a small 1 gallon batch of the BBS Everyday IPA. This Sunday will be 3 weeks since I brewed it. I saw alot of tips in here of people saying let it ferment for an extra week than the instructions say. so, I've done that.

I'm planning on bottling it tonight, then waking up Saturday morning to do the BBS Chestnut Brown Ale next.

Just a few quick questions for all you experts out there...

1. My beer seems relatively calm in the fermenter right now. There's the odd tiny little bubble that will float it's way to the surface every now and then. As I said, I was planning on bottling tonight. Should I wait because of the odd bubble every now and then still? Or am I good to go?

2. I had a small accident while brewing. The recipe called for Columbus hops, and Cascade Hops. All of the Columbus going in first at the start of the boil, with the Cascade being dropped in 1/5th at a time every 15 minutes. Now... being the rookie I am, I accidentally dumped in the Cascade hops first. After pouring about half the package in I realized my mistake and stopped. I then panicked a bit (lol) and added the Columbus as required. Then slowly distributed the remaining Cascade hops as per the recipe. How badly did I screw this up?

3. I've got about an inch, or maybe a bit over in sediment at the bottom that I'm going to try my best not to suck up when I go to bottle tonight. I've been told by others to expect more in my bottles after I add the sugar (or in this case honey with water) to carbonate. How much should I expect in the bottles?

 

[kombat]

1. No problem at all, if it's been 3 weeks, you're good to bottle.

2. That's unfortunate, but the result will be a more-bitter, less hoppy IPA. Should still be tasty, just not quite what the recipe was designed to produce.

3. You'll get more sediment in the bottles because the yeast will ferment the priming sugar, then settle out. But it won't be very much. As in, a millimeter at most. Probably just a dusting of yeast on the bottom of the bottle. When you go to drink them, carefully pour the beer into a separate glass, and drink from the glass instead (rather than drinking right from the bottle). Leave the last mouthful of beer in the bottle, as it will contain the yeast/sediment.

 

[1977Brewer]

1. Three weeks should be adequate. I assume you don't have a hydrometer, as I didn't with my first batch. I bottled at a week, which was way to early, and ended up with some serious green apple brown ale. It's gone, and but a memory now.

2. You didn't do anything wrong, you just altered the playbook. Called an audible. You're going to get a lot of bittering, with very little aroma or flavor though. I would have ditched the first Columbus addition altogether, and used it in combo with the Cascade.

3. Back to my mistake in section 1, I had a TON of sediment in the bottom. Expect more than a commmercial beer, but you shouldn't have mud in the bottle like I did.

 

[brandon27]

1. No problem at all, if it's been 3 weeks, you're good to bottle.

2. That's unfortunate, but the result will be a more-bitter, less hoppy IPA. Should still be tasty, just not quite what the recipe was designed to produce.

3. You'll get more sediment in the bottles because the yeast will ferment the priming sugar, then settle out. But it won't be very much. As in, a millimeter at most. Probably just a dusting of yeast on the bottom of the bottle. When you go to drink them, carefully pour the beer into a separate glass, and drink from the glass instead (rather than drinking right from the bottle). Leave the last mouthful of beer in the bottle, as it will contain the yeast/sediment.

Perfect! The little bit of slow tiny bubbling was making me worry, glad to hear I'm good to go!

I'm still really mad at myself for messing up the hops! I still had enough to add them in every 15 minutes, just... half of what I should have! When I was upset about it on brewing day, I just told myself... It'll be fine. It will just be less hoppy tasting, which I'm ok with, because some of the strong hops flavored beers are hard to handle for me. I've adjusted well and grown to enjoying them over the years though, so... we'll see what happens I guess.

I typically drink out of a glass always anyways. So, it wont bother me. I've read the sediment is safe to consume anyways, correct? It won't bother me either way, but is there a way to limit that, or prevent it? I'd only be concerned with giving someone else a bottle to try and the sediment making them hesitant on trying it.

Thanks for the quick response!

 

[brandon27]

1. Three weeks should be adequate. I assume you don't have a hydrometer, as I didn't with my first batch. I bottled at a week, which was way to early, and ended up with some serious green apple brown ale. It's gone, and but a memory now.

2. You didn't do anything wrong, you just altered the playbook. Called an audible. You're going to get a lot of bittering, with very little aroma or flavor though. I would have ditched the first Columbus addition altogether, and used it in combo with the Cascade.

3. Back to my mistake in section 1, I had a TON of sediment in the bottom. Expect more than a commmercial beer, but you shouldn't have mud in the bottle like I did.

Thanks for the reply.

I don't presently have a hydrometer. I've been reading around here and other websites about how useful they can be, so I was contemplating getting one. Sadly, my hometown doesn't really have a good store for purchasing any of this stuff, I'm relying on the internet for my supplies.

Any suggestions for a good hydrometer to purchase?

 

[rodwha]

There is CO2 trapped in the trub that can make its way up, especially when disturbed.

I watch the beer through the glass as I pour to ensure I keep most of it out. A little isn't an issue, but the yeast will add a flavor if you dump it all in. Some people don't mind it though.

 

[rodwha]

I'm not sure if there's a bad hydrometer choice. I bought most of my stuff from MoreBeer and get the ~$15 hydrometer. Nothing fancy.

I have been wanting a tiny one, but it was discontinued long ago...

 

[brandon27]

I'm not sure if there's a bad hydrometer choice. I bought most of my stuff from MoreBeer and get the ~$15 hydrometer. Nothing fancy.

I have been wanting a tiny one, but it was discontinued long ago...

Would this be a good choice?

http://www.morebeer.com/products/beer-wine-hydrometer-correction-scale.html

 

[Bobcatbrewing42]

I agree with the previous posts. I do recommend buying brewing software as soon as possible. I use Beer Smith. That would give you the hop profile including IBU's up front. It you make a mistake or run out of something, you can type in the new hop or grain input and get some kind of idea what the results will be.

 

[Bobcatbrewing42]

brandon27. The most important thing in homebrewing is to spend all of your money on brewing equipment, move your car out of your half of the garage and turn that into a brewhouse, spend all of your time on Homebrew talk, and bore your non-brewing friends, by talking about it. You will get new friends, when the word gets out about your beer, especially if you share it.

 

[Jsmtg32]

Hello Everyone,

2. I had a small accident while brewing. The recipe called for Columbus hops, and Cascade Hops. All of the Columbus going in first at the start of the boil, with the Cascade being dropped in 1/5th at a time every 15 minutes. Now... being the rookie I am, I accidentally dumped in the Cascade hops first. After pouring about half the package in I realized my mistake and stopped. I then panicked a bit (lol) and added the Columbus as required. Then slowly distributed the remaining Cascade hops as per the recipe. How badly did I screw this up?

You can always dry hop for a few days to add some more hop flavor

 

[1977Brewer]

brandon27. The most important thing in homebrewing is to spend all of your money on brewing equipment, move your car out of your half of the garage and turn that into a brewhouse, spend all of your time on Homebrew talk, and bore your non-brewing friends, by talking about it. You will get new friends, when the word gets out about your beer, especially if you share it.

This is sage advice. Except I never knew garages were for cars, I thought that was were the junk went.

 

[rodwha]

I was apparently wrong about the cost as I have the basic simple hydrometer (2 of them). It's this one:

http://www.morebeer.com/products/triple-scale-hydrometer.html

I've considered buying the one you linked to just so as not to need a thermometer too, but just never did.

Oh, and buy 2 hydrometers and thermometers as you'll eventually break them. Nice to have a backup on that day!

I like to stock up on a lot of the little things such as muslin bags, bottle caps, hops, DME, dry yeast etc. If there are issues or, like me, you dabble with things last minute, you can adjust for it. But caps and hop bags are things that may get overlooked on ordering day.

My garage (2 car) doesn't hold a vehicle unless you count the kid's car, bicycles, or kayaks... It's storage and I want more!

 

[kombat]

You can always dry hop for a few days to add some more hop flavor

Dry hopping doesn't add any hop flavour. It adds aroma. Hop flavour comes from late/flameout/whirlpool/hopstand additions.

 

[kombat]

Perfect! The little bit of slow tiny bubbling was making me worry, glad to hear I'm good to go!

Just to expand on this a little bit, the presence of CO2 bubbles doesn't necessarily mean that the beer is actively fermenting. It just means CO2 is leaving solution. That could happen for many reasons, such as the beer warming up, which reduces its ability to hold CO2 in solution. Hence, some leaves solution. It could mean that the barometric pressure is dropping in your area, and the CO2 is coming out of solution to equalize.

Technically, to be certain it's done fermenting, you should take a gravity reading, then take another one 3 days later. If it's unchanged, then it's done. But after 3 weeks, unless you've picked up an infection or were fermenting at the very bottom of the yeast's temperature range, it's most certainly done.

I'm still really mad at myself for messing up the hops! [...], I just told myself... It'll be fine. It will just be less hoppy tasting, which I'm ok with

That, and like I said, it will result in a more bitter beer.

When you throw hops into boiling wort, the oils (actually alpha acids) dissolve into the hot wort. This gives you hop flavour. However, as you boil those acids, they become "isomerized," and convert into iso-alpha acids, which means they impart bitterness, rather than hop flavour. That's why you add hops at different times. The first hops you add, the ones you boil the longest, eventually become completely isomerized and produce the bitterness in your beer. The ones you throw in at the very end are not boiled long enough to convert to iso-alpha acids, and retain their hop flavour characteristics. They don't increase the bitterness nearly as much as hops added near the beginning of the boil.

So in your case, you added more hops at the beginning than the recipe called for, meaning you'll end up with more bitterness. Consequently, it left you with less hops to add at the end of the boil (which will give you your hop flavour), so your beer will be less "hoppy."

I've read the sediment is safe to consume anyways, correct?

Yes. It's just yeast. But it will alter the flavour, and result in a cloudy beer.

is there a way to limit that, or prevent it?

Store the bottles in a refrigerator for a few days before you intend to drink them. That will give the yeast time to settle to the bottom of the bottle and compact nice and tightly, allowing you to pour the beer out without disturbing it as much.

I'd only be concerned with giving someone else a bottle to try and the sediment making them hesitant on trying it.

You can either coach them up on proper pouring technique, or pour it for them, or switch to kegging.

 

[brandon27]

Just to expand on this a little bit, the presence of CO2 bubbles doesn't necessarily mean that the beer is actively fermenting. It just means CO2 is leaving solution. That could happen for many reasons, such as the beer warming up, which reduces its ability to hold CO2 in solution. Hence, some leaves solution. It could mean that the barometric pressure is dropping in your area, and the CO2 is coming out of solution to equalize.

Technically, to be certain it's done fermenting, you should take a gravity reading, then take another one 3 days later. If it's unchanged, then it's done. But after 3 weeks, unless you've picked up an infection or were fermenting at the very bottom of the yeast's temperature range, it's most certainly done.

Awesome information in the whole reply. Thanks for all of that.

The little bit of bubbling thats happening right now is very minor. very tiny, almost impossible to see little bubble once in a while. Other than that, its a nice color, looks good, the sediment at the bottom appears to be nicely packed. It hasn't changed its look much in the last 3 -4 days. Sunday will be 3 weeks since I started the process. Blowoff tube was in as instructed until the vigorous bubbling subsided. Air lock has been in for officially 2 weeks as of Wednesday of this week. Because of how inactive it looks, I think I'm still going to bottle it tomorrow. I have no hydrometer right now, and no way to get one in the short term, so I think I'll just chance it and bottle. I'll just store my bottles inside of a cooler to be safe.

I'm going to order a hydrometer from online when I get home from work tonight to make sure I have one for my next batch. When I started this BBS kit 3 weeks ago, I thought it would be as simple as follow their instructions and drink. It has been that simple really, but the more research I've done on the process the more I've realized there is to it to make sure it comes out good. I guess I was a bit unprepared.

 

[kombat]

When I started this BBS kit 3 weeks ago, I thought it would be as simple as follow their instructions and drink. It has been that simple really, but the more research I've done on the process the more I've realized there is to it to make sure it comes out good. I guess I was a bit unprepared.

LOL, welcome to the club! We've all gone through exactly the same process, nobody starts out brewing perfect beer right off the top without any room to improve their process whatsoever. It takes time to learn the differences subtle changes/improvements to your process can make to your final beer. Things like pitching rates, yeast starters, fermentation temperatures, clarifying process, dry hopping protocols, cleaning equipment, chilling, water chemistry, and on and on and on, there's a whole world of things to learn, and you've taken the first intrepid steps. Congratulations! It only gets better from here, and we're here to help.

 

[btbnl]

brandon27. The most important thing in homebrewing is to spend all of your money on brewing equipment, move your car out of your half of the garage and turn that into a brewhouse, spend all of your time on Homebrew talk, and bore your non-brewing friends, by talking about it. You will get new friends, when the word gets out about your beer, especially if you share it.

Just remember you're not brewing in the garage, you're parking in the brewery.

 

[btbnl]

Because of how inactive it looks, I think I'm still going to bottle it tomorrow. I have no hydrometer right now, and no way to get one in the short term, so I think I'll just chance it and bottle. I'll just store my bottles inside of a cooler to be safe.

Just don't store them cool ... they want to be warm to carb.

When I bottled, I'd put them in boxes, and put the boxes in a heavy-duty garbage bag in a nice warm place. The only bottle-bomb I ever had shot the cap out through a gap in the mouth of the garbage bag but all the glass and liquid stayed inside!

 

[brandon27]

LOL, welcome to the club! We've all gone through exactly the same process, nobody starts out brewing perfect beer right off the top without any room to improve their process whatsoever. It takes time to learn the differences subtle changes/improvements to your process can make to your final beer. Things like pitching rates, yeast starters, fermentation temperatures, clarifying process, dry hopping protocols, cleaning equipment, chilling, water chemistry, and on and on and on, there's a whole world of things to learn, and you've taken the first intrepid steps. Congratulations! It only gets better from here, and we're here to help.

Thanks! It's been fun so far, can't wait to taste it, no matter how awful I might have made it lol

I'll update this when I finally get aroudn to drinking it!

 

[GHBWNY]

Just don't store them cool ... they want to be warm to carb.

When I bottled, I'd put them in boxes, and put the boxes in a heavy-duty garbage bag in a nice warm place. The only bottle-bomb I ever had shot the cap out through a gap in the mouth of the garbage bag but all the glass and liquid stayed inside!

Good point, esp. since you're close to the bottle-conditioning phase --- which is one more thing you won't find in the kit instructions.

Whether in a cooler, closet, cellar, etc., make sure the bottles are at ~70F for 3 weeks. Bottle-conditioning is a mini-fermentation process, and the yeast likes this temp while dining on the priming sugar. Then into the fridge (if you have room). The bottles, not you.

 

[brandon27]

Just don't store them cool ... they want to be warm to carb.

When I bottled, I'd put them in boxes, and put the boxes in a heavy-duty garbage bag in a nice warm place. The only bottle-bomb I ever had shot the cap out through a gap in the mouth of the garbage bag but all the glass and liquid stayed inside!

Good point, esp. since you're close to the bottle-conditioning phase --- which is one more thing you won't find in the kit instructions.

Whether in a cooler, closet, cellar, etc., make sure the bottles are at ~70F for 3 weeks. Bottle-conditioning is a mini-fermentation process, and the yeast likes this temp while dining on the priming sugar. Then into the fridge (if you have room). The bottles, not you.

Yeah, thanks. The room they're going in is around 68-70 typically. I just meant I'd put them in a cooler as a way to contain them if there is an accident so there's not a nasty mess to clean up. I've got some of those swing top bottles to use for my bottling, so hopefully nothing bad happens. Actually, I'll probably move them into the laundry room where it's typically warmer than the uninsulated crawlspace under my stairs.

 

[brandon27]

So I did my bottling tonight. Had a little spill here and there with the damn siphon that came with the kit. Going to have to invest in something better there. What a PITA that was.

My first bottle is going to have some excess sediment. I had it buried in the trub apparently. Oops!

Ended up with just under 7 bottles. Not sure what happened there. I thought I'd have a bit more closer to 8. I'm using 500ml bottles btw. Not sure why that happened. I did leave some beer behind because I didn't want to get too close to the sediment in the bottom again, but still. Seemed pretty low.

One thing concerned me a bit, I spilt some down the side of one bottle, and when I moved it to put it away, I was surprised just how sticky the beer was. Hopefully that's not too strange?? It sure smelt good though.

 

[fimpster]

7 x 500ml bottles is right on target for a 1 gallon batch.

Also beer is really fermented sugar water. Sticky is normal.

 

[btbnl]

So I did my bottling tonight. Had a little spill here and there with the damn siphon that came with the kit. Going to have to invest in something better there. What a PITA that was.

If you're going to keep bottling you'll want a bottling bucket and wand (not the abracadabra-beer-be-bottled kind, unfortunately, but a tube with a spring-loaded end so the beer only comes out when it's pressed to the bottom of the bottle).

 

[rodwha]

I use an auto-siphon and end up tilting the fermentor to get nearly all of it. occasionally I get a little trub too, but I allow it to sit a bit before I begin bottling so that it has time to settle.

 

[mfgann]

So I did my bottling tonight. Had a little spill here and there with the damn siphon that came with the kit. Going to have to invest in something better there. What a PITA that was.

My first bottle is going to have some excess sediment. I had it buried in the trub apparently. Oops!

Ended up with just under 7 bottles. Not sure what happened there. I thought I'd have a bit more closer to 8. I'm using 500ml bottles btw. Not sure why that happened. I did leave some beer behind because I didn't want to get too close to the sediment in the bottom again, but still. Seemed pretty low.

One thing concerned me a bit, I spilt some down the side of one bottle, and when I moved it to put it away, I was surprised just how sticky the beer was. Hopefully that's not too strange?? It sure smelt good though.

I have a bottling wand that leaked like crazy. It relied on gravity to "seal" which didn't work worth a flip. I have since gotten one that is spring-loaded and can't wait to try it out next bottling. Seems like it'll seal a lot better.

It's hard to predict exactly how much you'll have. Avoiding yeast and true at the bottom uses up some. Hydrometer readings use up some, etc.. You can add a little extra water to try and stretch it, but what you're effectively doing is watering down your beer.

The sugar water you added for bottling is sticky, but the yeast will eat that and cause the bottles to carbonate.

I'm drinking my first successful brew (first brew I didn't know of about star San and got an infection). It tastes good. Really d*mn good.

Enjoy!

 

[rodwha]

"I have since gotten one that is spring-loaded and can't wait to try it out next bottling. Seems like it'll seal a lot better."

Make sure prior to sanitizing that the end is nestled up against the tube properly. I get leaks every now and again because it's not fitted correctly.

 

[mfgann]

So I did my bottling tonight. Had a little spill here and there with the damn siphon that came with the kit. Going to have to invest in something better there. What a PITA that was.

My first bottle is going to have some excess sediment. I had it buried in the trub apparently. Oops!

Ended up with just under 7 bottles. Not sure what happened there. I thought I'd have a bit more closer to 8. I'm using 500ml bottles btw. Not sure why that happened. I did leave some beer behind because I didn't want to get too close to the sediment in the bottom again, but still. Seemed pretty low.

One thing concerned me a bit, I spilt some down the side of one bottle, and when I moved it to put it away, I was surprised just how sticky the beer was. Hopefully that's not too strange?? It sure smelt good though.

I have a bottling wand that leaked like crazy. It relied on gravity to "seal" which didn't work worth a flip. I have since gotten one that is spring-loaded and can't wait to try it out next bottling. Seems like it'll seal a lot better.

It's hard to predict exactly how much you'll have. Avoiding yeast and true at the bottom uses up some. Hydrometer readings use up some, etc.. You can add a little extra water to try and stretch it, but what you're effectively doing is watering down your beer.

The sugar water you added for bottling is sticky, but the yeast will eat that and cause the bottles to carbonate.

I'm drinking my first successful brew (first brew I didn't know of about star San and got an infection). It tastes good. Really d*mn good.

Enjoy!

 

[brandon27]

7 x 500ml bottles is right on target for a 1 gallon batch.

Also beer is really fermented sugar water. Sticky is normal.

Well, it's actually about 6 and a half or bit less than half. Although with what I spilt getting the siphon going, and what I left behind in the fermenter, maybe I could have gotten close to filling that 7th. I was only filling them to just a bit into the neck too. If that. So the ones that are full, arent exactly full either.

There was a good inch and a half or so of trub pack into the bottom of that jug though. Could that be too much? If so, what would cause that?

 

[fimpster]

Well, it's actually about 6 and a half or bit less than half. Although with what I spilt getting the siphon going, and what I left behind in the fermenter, maybe I could have gotten close to filling that 7th. I was only filling them to just a bit into the neck too. If that. So the ones that are full, arent exactly full either.

There was a good inch and a half or so of trub pack into the bottom of that jug though. Could that be too much? If so, what would cause that?

Were you bottling straight from the same jug you fermented in? If so, then an inch and a half of trub is normal. I've had 2+ inches of trub in the bottom of my fermenter before, depending on how much gunk got transferred from the kettle and how flocculant the yeast is. It wont hurt anything, and if some made it into your bottles, just keep them in the fridge for a few days before opening them (after they are properly carbed, of course). The cold will cause all the solids (yeast, trub) to form a very thin layer on the bottom of the bottle. Pour slowly but steady into a glass and leave the last 1/4 inch in the bottom of the bottle. Again, it wont hurt if some makes it into your glass and you drink it. Many commercial beers are bottle conditioned in this way and also have the fine layer of sediment on the bottom of the bottle.

In the future, try to keep as much break and hop material in the kettle as possible, but really don't worry too much about it. Also, it's usually preferable to rack from your fermenter into a bottling bucket, leaving the trub behind. Also, use one of the previously mentioned spring-loaded bottling wands to get a consistent fill on every bottle. They're only a couple of dollars and well worth it.

 

[brandon27]

So just an update here...

Last weekend I consumed my first bottle of my first ever homebrew... the BBS Everyday IPA... and I must say, even though I had the hops mix up I mentioned back in the original post, the beer still tasted damn fine to me! I am however curious to order another of the same batch, do it right this time, then see the difference.

My only complaint with the beer itself... I felt it was a bit over carbonated. I'll cut back on the honey next time from 3 tablespoons to probably 2. Staying with the complaint... I could taste the honey in the beer, faintly, but it's there. That bothers me.

Any other suggestions on what to use for carbonation aside from Honey as BBS recommends?

The day after I bottled the Everyday IPA, I brewed the Chestnut Brown Ale kit. I bottled it last night. It wasn't very active during the fermentation process after the first 24 hours, so I was concerned with it initially, but it looked good, smelled good, and tasted good when I bottled it. So... time will tell.

I have one batch left to brew, the BBS Bruxelles Blonde. May wait a week or two to do it.

I doubt the last few bottles of the IPA make it to the weekend! lol

Any ideas on other carbonating solutions aside from honey would be great though!

 

[kombat]

The standard fermentable for priming is dextrose, or corn sugar.

 

[brandon27]

The standard fermentable for priming is dextrose, or corn sugar.

So in a one gallon batch such as these BBS kits, how much would I use?

 

[rodwha]

That all depends on your likes and style. This is the calculator many use. I love it!

http://www.northernbrewer.com/priming-sugar-calculator/

 

[kombat]

Rodwha beat me to it - that's the calculator most of us use. For "temperature", use the warmest temperature your beer reached after fermentation was completely finished.

 

[brandon27]

Awesome! Thanks guys.

So basically, if I was to use corn sugar, 72 degrees, English Brown ale, and one gallon.. I'm going to to just disolve 19.85 grams of the corn sugar into water, add the beer, then bottle, similar to how I'm using honey right now?

 

[rodwha]

Yes. I take into account the trub loss. I make 5.5 gal batches but carbonate for 5.25 gals.

 

[brandon27]

You guys are the best! This place is the best!!

No... wait... Beer is the best!! You guys understand right?!

 

[mfgann]

Awesome! Thanks guys.

So basically, if I was to use corn sugar, 72 degrees, English Brown ale, and one gallon.. I'm going to to just disolve 19.85 grams of the corn sugar into water, add the beer, then bottle, similar to how I'm using honey right now?

Yep, that works.. A lot of the 5g kits come with 5oz of corn sugar to use just that way. Dissolve it, bring it to a boil to sterilize, and then mix it with your beer just before you bottle. I don't know if you use any sort of bottling bucket with your kit.. if not be careful not to disturb the trub in the bottom as you add the sugar-water.

I've only used the priming sugar from the kits so far, but this time I'm going to try cane sugar. In the calculator link that was provided, you'll see "Sucrose".. that is common table sugar. I think I've read in previous posts that Cane sugar works better than Beet sugar, so you may need to pay attention to packaging, but it'd be a lot cheaper than corn sugar.

Maybe someone who has used table sugar can chime in?