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jmcvay131

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Ok so I was reading my all grain beer and it says mash in and mash out? I know the mash is putting the grains in hot water witch is what ever temp the instructions say for like an hr but what is mash in and mash out? And also I'm doing a strong scotch ale but I had my brewing procedures set as BIAB so as that route on beersmith2 it was in the parameters for the recipe. Buuut when I switch it so I'm using the mash tun then boiling the wort in the pot it's not enough grains and hops to meet the parameters for the ale. So Im just curious to as if it will still turn out ok?
 

mcbaumannerb

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Mash in is putting the grains and strike water (usually heated to about 162ish) so that it falls to your mash temp (152-156ish) After you mash, you vorlauf (slowly drain a few quarts of wort and gently pour back on top of the grain bed until it comes out clear of grains,) then lauter (drain the wort from the tun) and add your sparge water.

The sparge water would be your mash out and is at a warmer temp (usually 170) to stop the enzymes from converting any more and then rinse any remaining sugar from your grains. Stir the sparge water nad grains and let it sit for about 10 minutes, then vorlauf again (since you disturbed the grain bed filter) and then drain as much water as you need to reach your pre-boil volume.

Good luck on your first AG!
 

jmh286

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Mash out is adding super hot water to your mash to stop the starch conversion. You don't always have to mash out.

As far as the recipe, post it so we can look at it. If you had your equipment as a 3gal BIAB batch and changed it to a 5 gal batch, you have to change the grain bill as well.
 
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jmcvay131

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Recipe is 5 gallon

3 lbs Vienna malt
2 lbs caramel/crystal malt 40L
1 lbs pale malt 2 row
1 lbs victory malt

So the only thing I noticed though was that the color and bitterness drop and the Abv by 2.5% also. Well the gravity dropped as well. But as far as it suppose to be a strong scotch ale I'm guessing its just not going to be a true one since it doesn't lie with in the green parameters. The program I'm using is beer smith.
 

mcbaumannerb

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That grain bill is way too small for a strong Scottish ale. You'd need to double that grain bill just to get to the low end of OG for the style.

Did you craft this recipe yourself or get it from someone else?
 
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jmcvay131

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Ya I crafted my self but then I realized that I had it set for BIAB so when I switch it it was saying what you said it's not enough. But since Imelda to lazy or don't want to wait another three days for more grain and hops I'm just gonna go with it and see how it turned out lol.
 

Yooper

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Recipe is 5 gallon

3 lbs Vienna malt
2 lbs caramel/crystal malt 40L
1 lbs pale malt 2 row
1 lbs victory malt

So the only thing I noticed though was that the color and bitterness drop and the Abv by 2.5% also. Well the gravity dropped as well. But as far as it suppose to be a strong scotch ale I'm guessing its just not going to be a true one since it doesn't lie with in the green parameters. The program I'm using is beer smith.
The recipe is a big problem. It's got WAY too much crystal malt and victory malt, and not enough base malt (vienna and pale malt). I wouldn't use this recipe as is. It needs more base grain. For a smaller batch, it still needs to have far less crystal malt and victory malt, and some base grain added.

It's not only not a "strong" scotch ale, it's not even close to any sort of drinkable ale.
 
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jmcvay131

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Ya but since I really don't want to have waisted 30 bucks on a 2 gallon batch would I still be able to make a 5 gallon batch? I understand that it just won't be a strong scotch ale.
 

Yooper

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Ya but since I really don't want to have waisted 30 bucks on a 2 gallon batch would I still be able to make a 5 gallon batch? I understand that it just won't be a strong scotch ale.
The recipe is lacking in base grain. There is too much crystal malt and victory malt for the amount of base grain in the recipe. If you buy some base grain, you can probably make it work. But as is, there is 4 pounds of base grain and 3 pounds of specialty grains. That's just not enough for conversion or to have good flavor. It's the recipe's fault- not yours!

In order to make this work at all, no matter the batch size, you need some more base grain to "dilute" the high amounts of crystal malt and victory malt.

If you can get some base grain (more Vienna, or more pale two-row) before brewday, then it will work just fine.
 
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jmcvay131

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How much more two row do you think I would need? I might be able to get some from a friend.
 
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jmcvay131

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Ok so I added in 3 more lbs of 2 row and it put it in the parameters for the scotch ale so if I can get that from him then ill be able to make the ale if not then I could just experiment and see how it turns out with out it right?
 

Yooper

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Ok so I added in 3 more lbs of 2 row and it put it in the parameters for the scotch ale so if I can get that from him then ill be able to make the ale if not then I could just experiment and see how it turns out with out it right?
So, you've got 7 pounds of base malt (two row plus vienna) and three pounds of specialty grains? If so, that will convert just fine. It's still not ideal proportions for the best tasting beer, but it will convert and ferment without any issues.
 
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jmcvay131

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Ok so I switch it to a Scottish export 80 and it rit in the parameters for that so I guess that's what it will be. According to beer smith.and that's without the extra 3 lbs of two row.
 
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jmcvay131

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Sorry I also have in there 2 lbs of amber dry extract and for my hops I have .55 oz of northern brewer.
 

helibrewer

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The recipe is a big problem. It's got WAY too much crystal malt and victory malt, and not enough base malt (vienna and pale malt). I wouldn't use this recipe as is. It needs more base grain. For a smaller batch, it still needs to have far less crystal malt and victory malt, and some base grain added.

It's not only not a "strong" scotch ale, it's not even close to any sort of drinkable ale.
I agree with Yooper, the grain bill needs modification, you've got over 20% caramel malt and that is way too much for just about any beer style.
 

dumsboa09

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jmcvay131 said:
Sorry I also have in there 2 lbs of amber dry extract and for my hops I have .55 oz of northern brewer.
I'd reduce the crystal 40 to about a half pound. Not worried about color because of the amber DME and it'll give you that sweetness. Then drop the victory to a quarter pound or maybe a half so you get that biscuity flavor. Just my 2 cents.
 

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Sorry I also have in there 2 lbs of amber dry extract and for my hops I have .55 oz of northern brewer.
It's extremely difficult to help, if we're getting the recipe piecemeal. I've spent quite a bit of time working on this, and now to say there are 2 pounds of extract also and more hops too? The recipe still sucks, to be honest, but it makes more sense now in some ways.

Amber dry extract has crystal malt in it as well, so you've got more than a boatload of crystal malt in it, and the mash portion doesn't have enough diastastic power to convert unless you do add the extra two-row.

I've spent more than enough time on this, and still don't know the recipe in full, so I'll let someone with far more patience work on it. but overall, if you want to actually post a recipe that you're considering instead of doing it a little at a time, you might be able to get some help on this.
 

jmh286

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For future reference, base malt should make up ~80% of your recipe. Using crystal malt and other specialty malts for more than 20% will result in your beer being very sweet. What Alpha Acids are your hops? The next time you are asked to post a recipe, here's what we need.

Total Grain Bill
Any extract
Hops
Yeast
Batch Size

Go to Morebeer.com and watch the Beersmith tutorials. It will show you how to set your default settings and the basics of using the program.
 
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