First All Grain Oktoberfest - Recipe Critique, Any Suggestions?

[Zinc_Saucier]

Hi Everyone,

After looking at a few of the Oktoberfest/marzen recipes posted I decided to try and make one of my own. This is my first "from scratch" recipe (i've mostly made tweaks to other recipes I've found).

Recipe Type: All Grain
Yeast: White Labs 820
Yeast Starter: yes
Batch Size (Gallons): 5.5
Original Gravity (est): 1.058
Final Gravity (est): 1.016
IBU (est): 26.3
Boiling Time (Minutes): 60
Color (est): 9.7

Grain:
4lbs Munich Malt
4lbs Vienna Malt
2.5lbs Pilsner (2 Row) German
4oz Caraaroma
4oz Melanoiden Malt

Mash: 152 for 60min, Mash Out 168 for 10min

Boil: 60min

Hops:
1.5oz Saaz (40min)
.5oz Sterling (30 min) - Thought that the floral/spicy character might be nice?

Other:
Whirlfloc (15min)

I'm planning to ferment at ~55 then raise up for diacetyl rest for a few days before cold crashing and lager for at least 8wks.

Any recommendations/suggestions are greatly appreciated!

 

[tootal]

I don't see a problem as it will be a good beer but having more specialty malts than pilsner might give you a lower efficiency. Before I made my first Oktoberfest I did a lot of reading and one thing that was repeated a few times was that Oktoberfest should have twice the Munich than Vienna and a Vienna Lager should have twice the Vienna than Munich. The pilsner should be at least 1/2 the malt bill. Now those are generics as there really are no absolute rules, just guide lines.

Since pilsner is used the least you will end up with a very sweet wort which if you balance with hops will still be good. I would check your recipe against a IBU/OG ratio chart and see if you fall into those guide lines.

I like the use of Melanoidan malt to help mimmick a decoction mash!

 

[Beernik]

I disagree. Pilsner, light Munich, and Vienna are all capable of self-conversion. The only difference is in how fast you can mash them.

Any grain bill that has a Total Lintner greater than 35L will self convert. I calculate 68L for this beer (I'm assuming light Munich and not dark Munich in the grain bill).

When in doubt, I try to keep my mashes above 50L to make sure I'm not waiting a really long time for conversion.

This grain bill isn't that much lower in diastic power than my dampfbier. It was 1/3 Vienna, 1/3 light Munich, and 1/3 Pilsen. It calculated out to 76L.

And it's better than my rye beer that was 50% Pilsen, 25% flaked rye, and 25% torrified wheat. It calculated out to 55L.

I wouldn't worry about the grain bill at all in terms of can it fully convert or not.

 

[Jayhem]

Personally I like a big full tasting Oktoberfest.

I haven't made one yet but I do a Vienna lager that is 95% vienna malt and 5% carapils for more body. It's awesome!

Don't be afraid to use only Munich and Vienna for the base grains and specialty malts to taste.

 

[FuzzeWuzze]

Not sure what tootal is saying but Vienna/Munich can be fully converted just like Pilsner..

One of my favorite beers is Yoopers Oktoberfest which is 8# Vienna, 1# Munich, .5# C80, .5# CaraMunich

Honestly i wouldnt put Pilsner in my Oktoberfest's, it muddles the tastes and all i can taste is the standard Pilsner taste if it gets too high %. But thats up to everyone.

 

[Zinc_Saucier]

Thanks for the input

So taking that your guys comments into consideration I've subbed out the Pilsner for additional Munich, Vienna, and a little more Caraaroma and Melanoiden.

New grain bill is:
5.5lbs Munich
4.5lbs Vienna
8oz Caraaroma
8oz Melanoiden Malt

Mash, Hops, and boil stay the same

Brew day tomorrow!

 

[Zinc_Saucier]

Brew day was a success! We didn't have as much boil off as expected, so we ended up with an extra 1/2 gallon in the kettle, but had better efficiency so we were only .04 off!

Can't wait to see how this comes out, that's for the help!

 

[zeptrey]

I'll take a bottle! Prost!


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[Zinc_Saucier]

I'll take a bottle! Prost!


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[tootal]

Not sure what tootal is saying but Vienna/Munich can be fully converted just like Pilsner..

One of my favorite beers is Yoopers Oktoberfest which is 8# Vienna, 1# Munich, .5# C80, .5# CaraMunich

Honestly i wouldnt put Pilsner in my Oktoberfest's, it muddles the tastes and all i can taste is the standard Pilsner taste if it gets too high %. But thats up to everyone.

I just reread my post and don't see anything that's not true. I know Vienna and Munich will self convert, I never said it wouldn't. It will not be as efficient as pils but it will convert. The OP asked for advise and my advise is based on a lot of research of the style. I took a first in German Lagers with my Oktoberfest so I don't think it sucked!

 

[Beernik]

I'm not sure what you mean by efficiency.

My schwarzbock, which is 75% Munich malt and 0% Pilsen, last mashed at 78% efficiency.

Do you mean that Munich and Vienna have lower ppg than Pilsen?

 

[Zinc_Saucier]

And closing the loop, this came out really nicely and won first place at my fiancée's office homebrew comp! Will definitely be added to the regular rotation.

Thanks again for the help

 

[m1k3]

 

[Zinc_Saucier]

Ha! If you find yourself in Boston they'll be a full growler waiting

 

[bbrim]

I think with higher Munich/Vienna malt levels you should expect lower attenuation. The efficiency shouldn't be lower, these malts just have lower potential yield. I like to do Munich SMaSH beers. Congrats on the success. I thought your grain bill looked great.

 

[StMarcos]

I do my Ofest with 100% Vienna malt.

 

[Justdrumin]

I do my Ofest with 100% Vienna malt.

That's gonna be a Vienna Lager with 100% Vienna. I make mine the same way. That's definitely not an Oktoberfest though.

 

[StMarcos]

Ofest can definitely be made with 100% Vienna malt. Style guidelines, commercial examples, and references on the forums all support that grainbill for the beer.

 

[Justdrumin]

Ofest can definitely be made with 100% Vienna malt. Style guidelines, commercial examples, and references on the forums all support that grainbill for the beer.

Do You have any links? If I am mistaken I'm happy to say so, but I have no idea how you could have an Oktoberfest with 100% vienna. Anyway you look at it, it's still a Vienna Lager. You may be able to make an Oktoberfest with Vienna as a base. I will agree with that, but not 100% Vienna. You can't get the color and complexity of an Oktoberfest from that grain bill.

 

[StMarcos]

http://www.bjcp.org/2008styles/style03.php

 

[Justdrumin]

As I stated above, Vienna can be the bulk of the grain bill, I do believe that, but it can not be 100% of the grain bill for an Oktoberfest. For one thing, you can't achieve proper color from Vienna. You may be able to achieve a very light version with a decoction mash, but unlikely. The BJCP guidelines aren't a good representation of your argument.

 

[Beernik]

I'm sure it's a delicious beer.

I wouldn't worry about the color so much. Pilsner is used a lot to lighten the color of Oktoberfests. But for me, an all Vienna malt beer wouldn't have a strong enough malty-toast flavor to call it an Oktoberfest.

 

[StMarcos]

The guidelines do show a lighter colour, on average, for Ofest over Vienna.

 

[Justdrumin]

If you read the ingredient guidelines though, the Oktoberfest guidelines specifically state vienna is often the back bone with some Munich, pils, And crystal.

 

[noblesquirrel]

As an FYI, relative to the style, Festbier & Märzen are going to be distinct styles in the new BJCP guidelines. Festbier is paler, ranging from 4-7 SRM, while Märzen will range from 8-17 SRM. In terms of Märzen, the focus is on Munich malt. Crystal/Caramel malts really have virtually no place in traditional examples of either Festbier or Märzen, the rich note should be due to high quality base malts.