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First All Grain BIAB_NEIPA

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Rogue_Atom87

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So this weekend will be first attempt at BIAB. I ordered the brew bag and hop sock and should be here tomorrow so brew day will likely be Sunday. Recipe is NB fruit bazooka and modified for a 2.5 gallon batch. I also want to add some sweet orange peel but unsure of how much to add. I have seen anywhere from 1/2-1oz per 5 gallons online. Since my family likes a little more fruity flavor I may go 1/2oz for the 2.5 gallons.

5lb pilsner malt
12oz flaked oats
12oz white wheat malt

Strike 158*
Mash 152* for an hour
60 min boil
1/2 oz sweet orange peel at 10min
whirlfloc at 10min

Whirlpool Hops
.5 oz azacca
.5 oz citra
.5 oz ekuanot
.5 oz mosaic

Dry Hop
.5 oz ekuanot and mosaic day 3
.5 oz ekuanot and citra day 5

Yeast - Have a pack of safe ale us-05 but was thinking about using wyeast 1318. How many packs for 2.5 gallon batch. I have seen mixed reviews on this.

7.2% ABV
1.068 OG
1.013 FG
3.9 SRM
44 IBU

This is where need some help on what would be best. Lets say I want to move into serving keg at 3 weeks for force carb. Should I keep in fermenter and cold crash 48 hours before moving to serving keg or cold crash sooner?
 

Harleybrew32

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I would go for the London ale strain myself and ferment on the warmer side. 2.5g batch with a new pouch should be fine, I usually make a starter anyways just to get the yeast going.
may want to up the dry hop to 3/4 or 1oz but im a hophead.
cold crash 3-4 days before kegging/bottling, purge your keg well or fill with starsan and push it out with Co2 then rack your beer in.
cheers

orange peel if you do yourself avoid the white pilf(forgive my spelling)
 

IslandLizard

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@Harleybrew32 already offered excellent advice. ^

IPAs and especially NEIPAs own there own branch of applied brewing techniques.

Have you looked at some of our NEIPA threads to pick up on important guidelines?
Such as preventing any and all O2 exposure after fermentation starts, especially during dry hopping and packaging. Oxidation is bad generally, but really kills these beers within days!

Here's one of our most famous and informative NEIPA threads:
From whirlpooling to transfers these beers need special treatment and respect.

NB kits (most retailers' kits actually) tend to be quite lean on hops.
If you've have had NEIPAs before and that's what you'd expect and want, I'd use all the hops you got for the 5 gallons kit in your 2.5 gallon (half) batch.

Then buy some IPA hops from a hop vendor such as Yakima Valley Hops, HopsDirect etc. 8oz or full pounds. Store in freezer.

At what temp are you planning to do your whirlpool/hop stand at? Flameout (210-200F) is way too high a temp. Adding them at 170-150F would be much better, and just let them steep for 20-30'. Then chill to pitching temps as fast as you can.

If you're using dried orange peel, soak it in some hot/warm water for an hour, while boiling your batch, and add the peel and juice to your whirlpool.

Yeast:
Use WY1318, it's wonderful for NEIPAs, about all I use for them.

One pack should be enough for 2.5 gallons, as long as it's fresh and healthy. I'd still make a vitality starter early on the day of brewing or the day before.
If you don't have a stir plate, look up shaken-not-stirred yeast starters.
You can use a 1/2 gallon growler or wine jug for that.
Always exercise good sanitation practices when handling yeast.
 
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Rogue_Atom87

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Thanks for the replies.

I plan to hopstand around 170 for 30 min like you said then in ice bath. I like hoppy beers but since this is going to be more for the family a little less hoppy would be a good thing. I didnt buy the kit. I got all ingredients at LHBS. Ill have about 1oz of hops leftover so may add those as well. Fermenting will be done in corny keg so as long as I fixe my ball valve air lock O2 wont be a problem. Ill purge when I add dry hops.

Unfortunately I wont be able to get to the LHBS to get Wyeast 1318. Ill have to run with the US-05. Looking around appears will be fine maybe just wont have as much fruity flavors. Can I add more Orange peel to offset this. Family loves blue moon and just found wayne recipe which is what I will do next. Should I up the orange peel to 3/4-1oz for the 2.5 gallon batch?
 

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Can I add more Orange peel
I wouldn't use much more than 1/2 oz (of dried) in 2.5 gallons. Maybe 3/4 oz, max.
You're going to get tons of flavor and aroma from your hops.

I guess you're going to drop the hop sock with the dry hops into your keg? Just drop it in as is, or add a small weight (e.g., spare stainless fitting). Then swirl the keg once of twice a day to improve extraction and dispersion.

When adding the squeezed hop sock, stream CO2 in through the gas post, while the lid is off. You want to minimize air from getting in.
 
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Rogue_Atom87

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I actually ordered a 200 micron dip tube screen for inside the keg so wont be needing the hop sock. I may use it in future for hopping during boil.

Would there be any downside to just adding all the dry hops at once on day 5 or is staggered dry hopping better? Again once I open the keg to add hops ill immediately purge air with CO2 afterwards. I guess the big benefit of fermenting in keg is ability to keep out all air during fermenting and closed transfer to another keg easily. Only downside I can see is you cant see krausen or if there is infection.
 

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I actually ordered a 200 micron dip tube screen for inside the keg so wont be needing the hop sock. I may use it in future for hopping during boil.

Would there be any downside to just adding all the dry hops at once on day 5 or is staggered dry hopping better? Again once I open the keg to add hops ill immediately purge air with CO2 afterwards. I guess the big benefit of fermenting in keg is ability to keep out all air during fermenting and closed transfer to another keg easily. Only downside I can see is you cant see krausen or if there is infection.
If you transfer very slowly that screen may work. Chances are it will clog before finishing the transfer, been there. The surface is rather small, it doesn't take much hop pulp to clog it.

Since you're not adding a boatload of hops, add them all at once. Another good reason for that is you only have to open the keg once, letting air in, only once.
Definitely consider streaming CO2 in while the lid is off. Start streaming at 12-20 psi with the PRV open, remove lid, drop in rolled up bag or loose dry hops, reseat lid, close PRV. A 2nd set of hands my speed this little process up considerably.
Then purge a few times. It's not ideal, that lid opening is wide... Unwanted gases (i.e., O2) that entered are very hard to purge out since they mix freely and quickly. CO2 blanket is myth.

For reference, I add dry hops to my bucket fermenter through a 1" port drilled in the lid. I stream in CO2 at 15-20 psi through the airlock stem, lid bulges, remove stopper, drop in dry hops (loose), replace stopper, stop gas flow. Then purge a few times for good measure.

Typically, timing to dry hop is 3-5 days before packaging, or in your case, transferring to a serving keg.
Let fermentation activity be your guide when fermentation is done. The conditioning phase can coincide with dry hopping. Or take a gravity sample, which you can push out easily with a little bit of applied pressure.

You may want to read up on fermenting in kegs and what other brewers do to transfer. You're gonna have a significant trub layer on the bottom, yeast, dry hop pulp, and possibly kettle trub too. That's exactly where your dip tube entrance is.
 

Harleybrew32

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did you cut your dip tube or are you going to rack to another keg?
I had a keg poppet clog from dry hopping in the keg, had to take the poppet out until i kicked the keg.
 
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Rogue_Atom87

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I cut about 1 1/4" off dip tube prior to fermenting Pumpkin ale just finished up. I transferred from fermenting keg to serving keg with 5mm evabarrier tubing connected to a liquid ball lock on each end. Beer never touched O2. Once beer was transferred I opened fermenting keg and the Trub was right at the base of the dip tube so I cut off right amount. I may go a touch higher so when I dry hop with the dip tube screen limits risk of clogging.

My brew bag appears to be lost in transit so not brewing tomorrow which sucks. One thing I was thinking of is there a way to feed dental floss thru PRV when open then have it pinch down when closed? Doing this I can have hop bag loaded and sitting close to lid (i only do 2.5 gallon batches so wont touch beer). Once its time to dry hop I can pump in co2 and pull PRV valve releasing bag on inside dropping down into beer. The other option is to get food grade magnets and put magnet inside hop bag and secure it with another magnet on outside of lid. Pull the outside magnet when needed and bag drops. Just a few thoughts
 
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Rogue_Atom87

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Since didnt get brew bag in mail may run to LHBS tomorrow and grab pack of 1318. Read some reports that this strain is very active. Would 2.5 gallon headspace in a 5 gallon keg be enough room where I can use an airlock?
 

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Since didnt get brew bag in mail may run to LHBS tomorrow and grab pack of 1318. Read some reports that this strain is very active. Would 2.5 gallon headspace in a 5 gallon keg be enough room where I can use an airlock?
That should be enough headroom, it's only half full.

I'd make a starter with that pack, save at least half, pitch the rest.
BrewUnited's Yeast Calculator

You'd need some DME to make the starter wort.
 

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Since didnt get brew bag in mail may run to LHBS tomorrow and grab pack of 1318. Read some reports that this strain is very active. Would 2.5 gallon headspace in a 5 gallon keg be enough room where I can use an airlock?
Ask your LHBS if they have a brew bag while you are there.
 

Elric

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The other option is to get food grade magnets and put magnet inside hop bag and secure it with another magnet on outside of lid. Pull the outside magnet when needed and bag drops. Just a few thoughts
I've done this approach and been quite happy with the results.
 
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Rogue_Atom87

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Well LHBS doesnt carry wyeast so just going to roll with us-05

For fermenting I Keep the house at 71 but would have to carry keg upstairs and store on elevated shelf need a ladder to get to. This is only place 2 year old cant get to and would be a pain to get down to dry hop etc. To try and maintain lower temps I ordered the below last night


I have an outdoor closet next to keezer that usually stays 80-85 this time off year. Was going to put plenty of ice packs around keg in effort to keep temps mid 60s inside cooler. I think I can maneuver airlock to stick out top zipper and just close it around airlock. You think can maintain low enough temps with ambient temp that high?
 

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I would highly recommend against using US05 on your first neipa batch. Are you in a hurry to brew? Places like morebeer.com and northernbrewer.com can ship you 1318, both with free shipping with a minimum order (I think it's $59 with MB and $35 with NB). 1318 is a great. Personally I think it's a gateway yeast into the neipa style. It's probably the most common, but there are 10-15 other go to yeasts from Wyeast, White Labs and Imperial that I would use ahead of US05.
 

IslandLizard

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I have an outdoor closet next to keezer that usually stays 80-85 this time off year. Was going to put plenty of ice packs around keg in effort to keep temps mid 60s inside cooler. [...]
You think can maintain low enough temps with ambient temp that high?
You're not gonna lower ferm temps by 12-20F with ice packs and frozen water bottles inside an insulated bag in an 80-85F environment.
Although 66-68F is a soft maximum for many (non Belgian) ale yeasts, including US-05 and WY1318, and I generally prefer (and prevent) it from going higher, I've successfully fermented NEIPAs at 70-72F using 1318 with excellent results.

Your home temps of 71F, assisted with your ferm bag are much closer to reality and very doable. So find or create a suitable place, off limits to your young child's curiosity and for his/her safety. Corny kegs are not very stable.

Dragging a half full keg up and down a ladder a few times is doable, especially when you're in good physical shape. The lifting/hoisting over the top, on and off the shelf, could pose some challenges. Maybe with some assistance?
 
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Rogue_Atom87

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Yeah I have to get this batch done as I am leaving after this weekend for a bit. My brew bag is lost in transit so I ordered cheap one off amazon. Picked up pack of Safbrew S-33 today which appears to be fermintis yeast for NEIPA.

As far as fermenting temp I put an empty keg in the cooler bag in the outdoor closet. temps outside today was 80 and I put 3 ice packs around the keg. Then put a remote thermo away from ice pack and temp held around 68 all day. I ordered there 18F ice packs so may be doable. I will start this way and then if it doesnt work I will try and move it inside. I can typically smell the fermentation so I am hesitant of putting in closet under all the nice dress clothes. The top zipper would be slightly open from airlock hanging out.
 

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I would highly recommend against using US05 on your first neipa batch. Are you in a hurry to brew? Places like morebeer.com and northernbrewer.com can ship you 1318, both with free shipping with a minimum order (I think it's $59 with MB and $35 with NB). 1318 is a great. Personally I think it's a gateway yeast into the neipa style. It's probably the most common, but there are 10-15 other go to yeasts from Wyeast, White Labs and Imperial that I would use ahead of US05.
But ordering liquid yeast that needs to be shipped is a) expensive for what it is, unless you can piggyback it onto a larger order you need anyway. and b) mandates making a good starter before use, no excuses.

There are other yeast manufacturers that make good(?) NEIPA yeast, such as Omega and Gigayeast.
@Rogue_Atom87, are there any other LHBS around that may have something? Call around?

Alternatively, Lallemand now makes a dry NEIPA yeast. It's pricey for a single 11 gram pouch, ouch! I have no experience with it or seen any homebrewing reviews.
 

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But ordering liquid yeast that needs to be shipped is a) expensive for what it is, unless you can piggyback it onto a larger order you need anyway. and b) mandates making a good starter before use, no excuses.

There are other yeast manufacturers that make good(?) NEIPA yeast, such as Omega and Gigayeast.
@Rogue_Atom87, are there any other LHBS around that may have something? Call around?

Alternatively, Lallemand now makes a dry NEIPA yeast. It's pricey for a single 11 gram pouch, ouch! I have no experience with it or seen any homebrewing reviews.
That is an Amazon low supply cash grab. I got a pouch of it for $6.99 Canadian from my lhbs, just have to free up some kegs to give it a go. They also have their new verdant ipa yeast which is supposed to be quite good for neipa.
 
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Rogue_Atom87

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We had two LHBs that I knew about and one closed. The one remaining I believe carries fermintis and whitelabs

Question on using ice packs to control ferment temps. Is it ok for ice pack to touch side of fermenter? Id imagine that activity on inside would prevent that one area from dropping too much in temp to have any negative affects
 

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That is an Amazon low supply cash grab.
Not surprisingly...
I posted the link to show a picture and a place that actually has it in stock. As usual, conscientious buyers should start shopping around from there.

I'm still pitching from my first pouch of WY1318 I bought 3 years ago. 15+ NEIPAs down, 4 fresh starters in the fridge, ready to go, and enough stockpiled for another 20+ batches (after appropriate starters).
 

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Question on using ice packs to control ferment temps. Is it ok for ice pack to touch side of fermenter? Id imagine that activity on inside would prevent that one area from dropping too much in temp to have any negative affects
Some ice packs touching the fermenter is not a problem, unless you encapsulate the whole thing in ice.

Any way you can monitor the actual beer temp inside the keg without exposing the content to air?
 

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But ordering liquid yeast that needs to be shipped is a) expensive for what it is, unless you can piggyback it onto a larger order you need anyway. and b) mandates making a good starter before use, no excuses.

There are other yeast manufacturers that make good(?) NEIPA yeast, such as Omega and Gigayeast.
@Rogue_Atom87, are there any other LHBS around that may have something? Call around?

Alternatively, Lallemand now makes a dry NEIPA yeast. It's pricey for a single 11 gram pouch, ouch! I have no experience with it or seen any homebrewing reviews.
That's why I quoted the shipping minimums. Most people can fill a $35 order :)

I hear you though. Personally, if my only choice was to use US05 or wait for a better neipa yeast, I would wait. Just throwing in my 2 cents, as I brew neipas probably 3:1 to other styles. I learned by trial and error, so I was just trying to cut out the fluff for the OP.
 
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Rogue_Atom87

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Some ice packs touching the fermenter is not a problem, unless you encapsulate the whole thing in ice.

Any way you can monitor the actual beer temp inside the keg without exposing the content to air?
I actually have the below thermo pro that use for sausage fermentation. Battery lasts well over week on one charge. Can vac seal it and sanitize bag and drop in keg. Are foodsaver bags ok to use in fermenter?
2BE39221-F674-4DCD-9F9B-40FF71FBCCEF.png
 

Harleybrew32

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I use Tilt Hydrometers for my fermentation's.
it tracks the temp and gravity, so far they seem to be pretty close to the end.
I also have my temp probe taped to the side with insulation over it, the Tilt and the probe on the outside are within 1deg so far on most of my brews.
if you want a NEIPA you should wait for the right yeast, US-05 wont give you that fruity ester or flavors, plus it will probably dry it out. if you just want an IPA then US-05 will give you that.
cheers
 
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Rogue_Atom87

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I have seen the TILT and they look nice but not in position to drop a $100+ on them. When I used my keezer to ferment last batch I taped thermo to side and worked well. Now since I have one keg on tap I cant use the keezer and feel like thermo taped to side in a cooler with ice packs may give false readings.

I like the idea of vaccum sealing a thermo probe, sanitizing it really well and putting inside but cant find if that has ever been done before.
 
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Rogue_Atom87

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Well a package full of goodies showed up to day so now have everything for BIAB setup. I wanted to re do my equipment profile to make sure everything was correct so filled kettle with 3.5 gallon and brought to a boil to monitor boil off. After a bit I noticed some white residue on the sides and when I finished boil and drained there was white residue in the water. Anyone know what this could be. This was not present the last two times I used this aluminum kettle. Also noticed weird spots on the bottom.
 

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I don't think you need whirlfloc in a hazy IPA. I'm not sure how big of a deal it is with a hoppy IPA, but with a primary pilsner based grain bill, a 90 minute boil with good boil off will prevent DMS from forming in your beer.

I just made a hazy and used the Verdant IPA yeast. Worked great. Pitched 3 packs for a 10 gallon batch (overkill) and has some great stone fruit like esters.

Not sure what type of fermenter you're using. The beer should finish out in less than two weeks. There seems to be lots of approaches to NEIPA dry hop methods. I like to keep it similar to my conventional dry hop method of tossing in hops with .004 gravity points left, cap the fermenter to not blow off hop aroma and let the beer naturally carbonate, and then cold crash for 2-3 days once the beer reaches finished gravity.
 
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Rogue_Atom87

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Yeah I dont know why I had whirlfloc down in recipe. I removed that as not needed. After updating my equipment profile the FG drifted quite a bit. I have efficiency set at 70%. Not sure if 1.021FG will be ok based on this recipe. Below is what Brewfather was calculating

1600904242385.png
 
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Rogue_Atom87

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Got an early start this morning on this recipe. After mashing at 150 for 60 min I got a pre boil gravity of only 1.044 vs 1.051 recipe indicated. OG was at 1.061. According to Brewfather this puts Mash efficiency at 69.7% and brewhouse efficiency at 62.9%. Not too thrilled with these numbers.

-One thing I did notice from original recipe to scaled down version I used it I was off by .25 pounds of pilsner malt. Not sure if this amount would make much difference
-I squeezed the crap out of the bag to get as much out as possible
-I boiled for 75min instead of 60 so finished amount in the fermenter was just under my estimate 2.5 gallon
-Pre boil volume was spot on to what recipe called for

Any idea on why the crappy efficiencies?
 

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Crush gap? Maybe some sparging will help out. I'm not too keen on conversion criteria when using different malts/grains. Iodine test for conversion? Maybe a 90 minute mash is necessary next time.
 
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Rogue_Atom87

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Unfortunately I cant crush my own grains and believe LHBS keeps on one setting. Next batch will base off same 63% but do 90min mash as you stated and see how that goes
 
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Rogue_Atom87

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Thanks. Will have them do that next time. One good thing is I have keg (fermenter) in the keg cooler bag with 3 cooler shock packs. I vac sealed the remote temperature probe shown above and dropped it inside. Temp is at 64F with ambient temps at 85F. I pulled two packs and replaced with a fresh one from freezer. Going to track intervals needed to maintain temp around 66-68 but believe I can do this with just two packs.
 
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Rogue_Atom87

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Looks like 1 shock pack in cooler will maintain fermenter temps of 64-66 with ambient temps 80-85. Pretty happy with this. This morning had very active fermentation 16 hours after pitching Safbrew S-33. Will probably dry hop on day 4

F1FDBB0F-A7CB-4D45-9FDE-F24A8E681C57.jpeg
 
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Rogue_Atom87

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So appears all fermentation has stopped. I saw one bubble this morning but nothing since then. I took a sample and only at 1.034. I plan to introduce dry hops tomorrow and will take another sample. If it is the same what is the best way to get the FG down to where it should be. Temperature during entire time was 64-70F
 
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Rogue_Atom87

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I dry hopped yesterday and took a gravity reading by hydrometer. It was at 1.022. I put sample in my refractometer and it shows 1.034 which is same as the day prior. I took another gravity reading today by hydrometer and it was at 1.022 so it appears fermentation was complete in 3 days. Not sure if that is concerning or not with temps maintaining mid-high 60s. How long should I let it sit in fermenter before cold crashing? I am leaving town on Sat morning and would prefer to cold crash and transfer to keg for 1 week conditioning prior to leaving. During conditioning in keg is it ok to pressurize with CO2 or should you leave it for a week then let it carbonate for a week after?
 

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Refractometer= wort gravity readings only.

3 days is pretty fast to stall out at 1.022. I'd be tempted to shake it up and let it ride at 72-73 interal temperature for a couple more days. Otherwise, how's it taste? If it's not too sweet and it's really done then just crash it. 1.022 is pretty high for an IPA (not as high for a NEIPA from my understanding)
 
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