First AG hefe taste grainy/barky

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youngson616

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Hey Guys first AG 5 gal. batch here. Im about 10 days after bottling and the beer has a distinct grain or husk flavor that i noted when I taste tested after the OG check. I think I know the culprit.... so I messed up and mashed a gallon of water over which I boiled off at an extended boil of 90 minutes instead if 60. Maybe the over mash water did it?? Total runnings were 8 gallons, target was 7. Mash temp was 152 for 1 hour strike 162. Low OG 1.044 . Came out to FG 1.011 after 2 weeks than bottled.

Think the off flavor could mellow out more if I kept it bottled conditioned another week or weeks?
 
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youngson616

youngson616

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Also the grains were ground rather well from my local homebrew. I just got a NB hrain kit in and in seems more wholesome?
 
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youngson616

youngson616

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My attempted fly sparge
 

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Biggz1313

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I used all distilled water and didn't change any of the water chemistry. Should I have added salts?
It's typically a pH issue, and with Hefe being on the lighter side, your grain bill won't bring the pH down as much as darker grains would. That being said, If you used distilled, it still shouldn't have been so high that you're getting a bunch of astringency from that. Have you put one of your bottled beers in the fridge for a couple days to let it cold crash and then try tasting it and see if that changes things.
 
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youngson616

youngson616

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It's typically a pH issue, and with Hefe being on the lighter side, your grain bill won't bring the pH down as much as darker grains would.
I agree possible ph issue. Anyway to confirm that at this point?
Have you put one of your bottled beers in the fridge for a couple days to let it cold crash and then try tasting it and see if that changes things.
I put 3 bottles in the fridge on day 10 which was actually friday than I tried one after a few hours of in the fridge. So today being day 13 bottled - 3 days in fridge - I just tried one and it does seem a little less astringent. Im gonna get on top of water ph control from here on out.
I suppose my question for this batch in particular is would cold crashing the batch be the better route verses room temp conditioning at this point?
 

Bassman2003

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Since this is your first all grain, I would say technique might be playing a role here. As you brew all grain, you will improve.

First, how was your starch conversion? Wheat beers can be grainy/starchy if you did not get everything converted. Have a look at mash temperature rests and running an adequately long mash or longer to make sure all of the wheat gets converted.

Second, how is your lauter? Or grain separation going into the boil kettle. You want to strive for clear wort going into the boil kettle and on to the fermenter. Otherwise you will bring some of that particle/husk flavor along into the finished beer. Many homebrewers say this does not matter due to convenience more than anything else. Since you are just starting, I would learn good habits and strive for clear wort all the way through the process.
 
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youngson616

youngson616

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Since this is your first all grain, I would say technique might be playing a role here. As you brew all grain, you will improve.
Thanks! I hope so!
First, how was your starch conversion? Wheat beers can be grainy/starchy if you did not get everything converted.
I think I undershot my OG 1.044 (target 1.050) because of too much water mash. But it made FG 1.011 4.5% beer. Is that safe to assume good conversion?
Second, how is your lauter? Or grain separation going into the boil kettle.
I laughtered about 2 - 3 qts and it didn't seem too bad maybe a little hazy but not grainy. I also assumed a few grains here or there would eventually get consumed into the yeast cake during fermentation. After the wort cooled I could tasted it and was tart grainy flavor which kinda stuck with it
 

hotbeer

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Maybe get some test strips to check the pH of your wort several times between beginning your mash and finishing everything up and almost ready for boil.

I'm iffy on using distilled water for mashing if you aren't going to add any buffers to it. Same for RO.

I've been using bottled water with a close enough analysis for the average ale or IPA and my ph is nailed on the 5.2 - 5.4 that most say it should stay.

I checked on several brews and always the same. So as long as I'm using the same water and pretty much the same malts I don't check anymore.

I was always told and am under the impression that distilled water has nothing to buffer it against anything that might swing it's pH one way or the other.

And too high a pH will lead to getting tannins from your grain. Barky flavor? Don't know. What kind of bark are you eating?:)
 

Bassman2003

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Just keep an eye on the two things I mentioned as you try different recipes and brewing techniques. Conversion is not measured as often as gravity by homebrewers, so it is best to error on the side of longer mashes then dial the time back as you get better with the entire process. There is the iodine test, but I had read that is not the complete picture, but a good place to start.
 

hotbeer

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Any sort of bottled water may be okay. And not just spring water.

All waters including spring water from a real spring will probably have a different analysis, some not as good for beer. So don't think one spring water is as good as another spring water. Some just taste way too soft for me, and I don't think soft water is good for beer...... but I've actually never brewed with waters I felt were soft.

I use this.

Crystal Geyser Alpine Spring Water, 1 Gal



Any brand and any type might work, Spring water, filtered water, RO and rebuilt water, Distilled and rebuilt water. However you need to do your homework and check what the analysis is for each brand. Some brands as does the one shown have multiple sources. And the analysis of each of those sources is available on their website. And the source is printed on each bottle.
 

Witherby

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It's typically a pH issue, and with Hefe being on the lighter side, your grain bill won't bring the pH down as much as darker grains would. That being said, If you used distilled, it still shouldn't have been so high that you're getting a bunch of astringency from that. Have you put one of your bottled beers in the fridge for a couple days to let it cold crash and then try tasting it and see if that changes things.
Apparently Hefeweizens play by very different ph rules than other beers according to a few things I have read including this concise overview:


“pH in weiss production is different…For one, the Ferulic acid rest needs to be a higher pH, to really work. Second the Weiss yeast are really stong performers and will drop pH quite fast. Third a little higer pH is desired in weiss production to aid in haziness.”

See also:

So lots of reasons to start with a higher pH. Haven’t tried it yet myself but plan on doing so soon.
 

Wolfbayte

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Apparently Hefeweizens play by very different ph rules than other beers according to a few things I have read including this concise overview:


“pH in weiss production is different…For one, the Ferulic acid rest needs to be a higher pH, to really work. Second the Weiss yeast are really stong performers and will drop pH quite fast. Third a little higer pH is desired in weiss production to aid in haziness.”

See also:

So lots of reasons to start with a higher pH. Haven’t tried it yet myself but plan on doing so soon.
Thanks for this. I've been adhering to the following HBT Water Primer on all my beers, but might try it without the sauermalz on the next Hef:

1/2tsp of Calcium Chloride per 5 gallons of RO water and 4 oz Sauermalz/Acid Malt (i.e., 2% of Grist). Source:

 
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youngson616

youngson616

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Looks like lots of debate on mash ph. I didn't think it was that big of a deal. Funny thing is I ran an identical recipe with my well water and no water chemistry or analysis 1 week after brewing this batch. Its still fermenting away but I wonder if the flavor with be similar compared to all distilled water
 

Dancy

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Once I started with RO or distilled water -- forget spring water in my opinion -- and started paying some attention to pH and adding minerals, my beer improved drastically. I think the test strips aren't worth the time or money as they are not exact enough. None of the colors I've gotten with those strips match anything on the color guide!! I bought a pH meter and that helped a lot -- though I am able to add lactic or phosphoric acid in small amounts to adjust the mash pH based on experience with previous grain bills and I know I am getting in the ball park based on the results even w/out a meter. You can get much more exact with water treatment if you like and I am moving towards that rather incrementally. There's lots of good info on HBT to help you educate yourself.
 
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youngson616

youngson616

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Once I started with RO or distilled water -- forget spring water in my opinion -- and started paying some attention to pH and adding minerals, my beer improved drastically. I think the test strips aren't worth the time or money as they are not exact enough. None of the colors I've gotten with those strips match anything on the color guide!! I bought a pH meter and that helped a lot -- though I am able to add lactic or phosphoric acid in small amounts to adjust the mash pH based on experience with previous grain bills and I know I am getting in the ball park based on the results even w/out a meter. You can get much more exact with water treatment if you like and I am moving towards that rather incrementally. There's lots of good info on HBT to help you educate yourself.
Right on. I'm on well water that is rather good drinking water I wonder If I can just use that with some acid? I hav see a digital ph meter and will be paying more attention in the future. I think if you are brewing generally the same style, product, water, and set up then the recipe for the water chemistry would stay consistent and can be done without metering the ph
 
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