First AG Day, 2 Batches, Crappy Efficiency :(

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aeonderdonk

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So today was my first AG brewday.

I am happy that there were no major snafus :D

I am sad that my efficiencies were total crap :(

Batch 1: IPA
10 lb 2-Row
2 lb Vienna
0.5 lb Cara-Pils
0.5 Crystal 20

Gravity before yeast: 1.057

Efficiency Calculated: 60%

Batch 2: Wheat (Fruit to be added in 2ndary)
4 lb 2-Row
4 lb White Wheat
0.5 lb Honey Malt

Gravity before yeast: 1.028
Efficiency Calculated: 33.7%


I don't know why my efficiencies would be so low? Is it my crush (I think if anything it was too fine)? Is it my mash process (155 for 1 hour for IPA, 151 for 1 hour for Wheat)? Is it my Sparge (6.5G - MashRunnings @ 170)? Is it my boil (60 min slow boil for both)?

All in all I am happy with my first attempt at AG, just want to improve my process and up my efficiencies (33.7% is embarrassing).

Thanks for all the great info and support leading up to the step up to AG. :mug::ban:
 
that's a tough one, sounds like your process was spot on. (my first ag was not nearly as precise). Batch 2 really stands out.
What is your process? I think more info is needed.
 
I am going to be doing my first AG batch next weekend and have been reading a lot about the process to make sure I don't screw something up so here is my game plan. Please feel free to point out any areas for improvement or big NO-NOs.

Thanks!



Equipment:
Turkey Fryer Propane Burner
30 Quart Pot (from turkey fryer)
Polder Digital Thermometer with dual probes and count down timers
54 Quart home built MLT
50' Copper Immersion chiller (garden hose input, 6 ft plastic tube output)
Big Wooden Spoon
15 Quart Pot (been using for partial boil extract batches)
Racking Cane and Siphon Hose
Carboy
Airlock w/ stopper
5 Gallon Bucket w/ Lid
StarSan
64 oz pitcher
Garden Hose as water source

Ingredients (for Bell's Two Hearted Clone):
10 lbs Pale Malt-2 Row (Milled with my Victoria grinder set up)
2 lbs Vienna Malt (Milled with my Victoria grinder set up)
8.0 oz Cara-Pils (Milled with my Victoria grinder set up)
8.0 oz Caramel - 20L (Milled with my Victoria grinder set up)
1.00 oz Centennial (60 min)
1.00 oz Centennial (15 min)
1.00 oz Centennial (5 min)
1.00 oz Centennial (1 min)
0.50 oz Centennial (Dry Hop in secondary 5 days)
Starter from Cultured Bell's House Strain Yeast

Steps:
1) Wash and Sanitize everything in bucket using StarSan
2) Add 16.25 Quarts water to larger brew pot (1.25Q/lb * 13lb) and heat to 170*F
3) Add water to MLT, let cool to 165*F
4) Dough-in grains, stirring continuously
5) Put thermometer probe into mash and close lid
6) After 40 minutes begin heating 4 Gallons of water to 180*F for sparge in larger brew pot
7) After 60 minutes vorlauf 2 pitchers and drain runnings into smaller brewpot (anticipating 2-2.5 gallons)
8) Put smaller brewpot onto burner and begin to heat
9) Sparge 2 Gallons of water at 180*F onto grain bed (dispersing flow by pouring onto bucket lid held by brave friend - or taped to MLT)
10) Vorlauf 2 pitchers and collect runnings into large brewpot
11) Repeat 9 and 10
12) Combine Mash runnings and Sparge runnings (Hopefully about 6.5 Gallons) in large brewpot and place on burner
13) Boil for 60 minutes (following hop schedule and putting immersion chiller in with 15 minutes remaining to sterilize)
14) Begin immersion chilling at flamout
15) Rack to carboy
16) Add yeast starter at pitching temp (target ~72 degrees)
17) Clean up

I posted my gameplan last week to get some feedback and I pretty much followed it to a T.

A couple issues: 2nd Mash was a little cool so I added some more water (~1 gallon at 170* F) to bring it up to temp. Also during sparge my MLT was a little cool after draining mash (~140* F).

I had a couple small boil overs but did not lose much volume and also did not lose more than a min or two of boil time.

I feel like my process was good, but just didn't yield the results I expected.

Even if my efficiencies were off I had a great time brewing AG and being outdoors.
 
Can you tell us some more about the second brew? Its really hard to imagine efficiency that low - even steeping I would expect 60%. Is it possible that you were off on the volume or something like that? I see, for example, that you added up t 1 gallon more water in the mash.
 
This is how the 2nd brew went. Mind you this is after 1 full brew's worth of brewing/drinking so maybe I was a little "off my game" if you will.


  1. Heat mash water (~2.75G) to 190*F, Let cool to 175*F, Add to empty MLT
  2. MLT already warm from 1st batch so add some cool water from hose (~0.5G)
  3. Dough in 8 lb grain and 1 lb rice hulls, mixing
  4. Temp is 150*F, add about 0.5G of 175*F water
  5. Temp rises insignificantly, leave at ~150*F for an hour (finishing temp 149).
  6. Collect runnings (~3.5G), begin to boil
  7. MLT cools to about 140*F after draining with lid off
  8. Add 1.5G sparge water at 175*F
  9. Collect runnings (~1.5 G)
  10. Add 1.5G sparge water at 155*F (has cooled while sparging)
  11. Collect runnings (~1 G) could have collected more but hit my target volume
  12. Boil for 1 hour (no boil over but stupid turkey fryer timer went out so was not heated for a few mins while relighting)
  13. Cool with immersion chiller to 88*F and rack
  14. Take OG Reading (1.028 after adjusting for temp)
  15. Curse loudly at Hydrometer for not reading what I was hoping for
  16. Clean up
 
water will do that. too much water probably. as far as steeping and reaching 60% is false. I calculate all of my recipes at 60% and achieve roughly 65 ish. I am very happy with that. infact most brewers (even proffesionals) calculate theirs at 65-70%. As far as the 33%, water is the biggest link I would look at. slow boil, not enough grain, lower mash temp than you think.... all could be factors.
 
Just for the record I am calculating efficiency thusly:

Malt1*PPG + Malt2*PPG + Malt3*PPG = Total PPG

TotalPPG/Post-Boil Volume = Total Points

Hydrometer Reading Post Boil @ 88*F= 1.0xyz

Efficiency = xyz/Total Points

I ASSUME this is the correct way to calculate efficiency, any other methods I may not be aware of?
 
Wheat is a bit tougher to grind and sometimes requires a tighter grind to get it cracked open well. Also it is "stickier" and can be harder to sparge. Many people use rice hulls while brewing wheat or rye beers.

If you have any grain left can you show us a picture of your 2-row grind and wheat grind?
 
Just for the record I am calculating efficiency thusly:

Malt1*PPG + Malt2*PPG + Malt3*PPG = Total PPG

TotalPPG/Post-Boil Volume = Total Points

Hydrometer Reading Post Boil @ 88*F= 1.0xyz

Efficiency = xyz/Total Points

I ASSUME this is the correct way to calculate efficiency, any other methods I may not be aware of?

yup! with a refracto and beersmith :ban:
 
No one mention this yet but it appears that your original gameplan is a bit off.

9) Sparge 2 Gallons of water at 180*F onto grain bed (dispersing flow by pouring onto bucket lid held by brave friend - or taped to MLT)

Batch sparging doesn't require careful dispersion of sparge water. Dump that stuff in and stir it really really well before vorlauf and draining. I suspect that if you didn't stir your sparge infusions, it would kill your efficiency. No doubt you're mixing fly sparge techniques with batch sparge techniques.
 
No one mention this yet but it appears that your original gameplan is a bit off.



Batch sparging doesn't require careful dispersion of sparge water. Dump that stuff in and stir it really really well before vorlauf and draining. I suspect that if you didn't stir your sparge infusions, it would kill your efficiency. No doubt you're mixing fly sparge techniques with batch sparge techniques.



I did not stir my sparge :eek:. I was under the impression that I shouldn't be disturbing the grain bed but I guess that applies to only fly sparging?

Basically here is what I did for my Mash/Sparge:

  • Once I waited an hour I vorlaufed and drained mash with no stirring
  • Put Aluminum Foil on top of the Grain Bed
  • Poured 2 gallons very carefully onto the foil, did not stir
  • vorlaufed and drained
  • Repeat pour/drain
  • Not once did I stir after doughing in
 
That's it.

A good technique is to pour half of your sparge water in. Stir, stir, stir. Let it sit for a few minutes. Vourlauf. Drain. Repeat until you hit your desired volume.
 
I think a lot of us are at the mercy of LHBS's milling procedures. I've had identical mash schedules result all the way from 55 to 72 % efficiencies. This is why I am going to start milling my own.
 
Here is a pic of my crush anyway, I thought it looked a little too fine but maybe not.

Crush.png
 
Nope. not too fine. Looks pretty good. Looks close to what I brewed with this weekend and hit 75% (was hoping for 80!) Might even go a tad finer.

Beersmith has a 'free trial' if I remember correctly. Once you use it a few times, you'll spring for it... Cool tools, too. Hydrometer temp adjustments (for that 150F hydro check), pre-boil to post-boil OG calculations, etc.
 
Man, that last response reminded me of something. I had similar problem this past weekend. After reading the last response, I corrected my O G for temperature and my efficiency went from 44% to 55%. Now I don't feel so bad.
 
Check out Bobby_M's All Grain overview. It's a great explanation of the process, but not so long and detailed that it overwhelms you.
All Grain

I use Bobby's "My Way or the Highway - My Method = N.M.O.D.B.S. - No Mash Out Double Batch Sparge" that phatuna describes above and get 80% eff routinely.
 
How are your ending volumes. If you finish with more volume then you intended it will lower your efficency.

Couple of things that may help in the future:

Use 5.2 in the mash. My wefficency was boosted 5-10% once I started using it.

Stir the mash after adding the sparge water. I have noticed in my brews that when I stir the mash after adding the sparge that I get higher efficency ~3-4%.
 
  • Once I waited an hour I vorlaufed and drained mash with no stirring
  • Put Aluminum Foil on top of the Grain Bed
  • Poured 2 gallons very carefully onto the foil, did not stir
  • vorlaufed and drained
  • Repeat pour/drain
  • Not once did I stir after doughing in

you really outta stir before you drain your 1st runnings as well.
 
Check out Bobby_M's All Grain overview. It's a great explanation of the process, but not so long and detailed that it overwhelms you.
All Grain

I use Bobby's "My Way or the Highway - My Method = N.M.O.D.B.S. - No Mash Out Double Batch Sparge" that phatuna describes above and get 80% eff routinely.

+1 - it's Bobby_M's primer that made me jump to AG. Thanks again Bobby!
 
Cheer up. It took me 5 batches before I finally started to feel comfortable with the process and show respectable efficiencies......and I'm still fighting to arrive at the correct mash temperature without tweaking.....
 
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