First AG batch - summary and questions

[bassmosphere]

Hey folks,

I completed my first all grain batch yesterday. I used the batch sparge method using a party chest cooler. The target OG of the recipe is 1.055 and I hit somewhere between 1.042-1.045. The beer is the color of apple cider looks much darker than the pale yellow I was expecting.

 

[bassmosphere]

1.The recipe calls for 75% efficiency, so it looks like I hit my target. Am I correct in thinking this?

 

[bassmosphere]

I put the hot water in the cooler and added the grains stirring to get the clumps broken up. I took a temperature reading of 152F, closed the lid and came back 90 mins later. I drained out about a quart of liquid, put it back in the cooler then threw in two gallons of 172F water. Cycled another quart, then threw in another 2 gallons of 172F water.

I started to drain into my brewpot which ended up taking about an hour to complete. I am using a 3/8 fitting on the cooler. Probably about 45 minutes into the game it was about 1/2 done, maybe a little more, so I decided I would try to speed things up a bit. I pushed the grain away from the spigot and placed a collander in front of it. It sped up a little bit, but it was still slow.

I have a hunch the darker color is a result from being in the mashtun too long.

 

[bassmosphere]

2. How long should it take to drain all the water from the mash? Is the fact that it took so long contributing to the darkened color? The recipe called for a 90 minute boil time, and I think I went an extra 20-30 mins once a boil was reached.

 

[Killervector]

The extra time in the mash should not affect the color.

Darker color of wort out of the mash can pretty much only come from one thing. Darker grains in the grist. What was your grain bill? I'm betting you had some caramel malt in there.... or maybe some munich? Even a 1/2 pound of caramel 40 in a 5 gallon batch changes the SRM value pretty significantly.

90 minute boil time could also darken it, but unless I'm missing something, it was darker out of the mash then you wanted, right? Also, don't forget that the first runnings out of your mash tun will be darker than the last.

It usually takes me about 40 mins to drain my mash tun, at most. I do 2 batch sparges. But I'm also doing 10 gallon batches. I have a 3/8 spigot out the side of my cooler.

What I do is exactly what Denny shows on his dennybrew.com site.

Bottom line is this... it shouldn't take you that long to sparge... but that shouldn't have made things darker for you. And it seems you hit your target OG, so RDWAHAHB.

 

[Rick500]

The extra boil time could have contributed to the darker color.

The longer the boil, the more sugars will caramelize.

Did you boil an extra 20-30 minutes after you'd already added some hops? That will bring the bitterness up as well.

If the target OG was 1.055 and the recipe is set up for 75% efficiency, ideally you will hit 1.055, not 75% of 1.055. The 75% efficiency is already factored into the target OG.

If you're looking at the color through the whole batch (either in a carboy or the boil kettle or a bucket), you'll see a color that's quite a bit darker than the beer is eventually going to be. The yeast settling out after fermentation will also lighten it up a bit.

Did the color look darker than expected in the hydrometer sample tube?

If I read your post right, you were sparging before you collected the first runnings? (You added water before you collected anything from the mash tun?)

I guess that's fine, it's just different than what I do, and I'm curious if you read it somewhere.

 

[bassmosphere]

The extra boil time could have contributed to the darker color.

The longer the boil, the more sugars will caramelize.

Could the darker color also come from the lengthened mash time? Grain was still hot while draining the mashtun.

Did you boil an extra 20-30 minutes after you'd already added some hops? That will bring the bitterness up as well.

Yes, I will try not to do that again. I calculated the SG of the wort before the boil, but I wasn't sure what to do with this number. I had about 7 gallons in the brewpot so thats about 29% more liquid than is going to be in the final batch. So I need to calculate what my gravity is before the boil to see if I am on track. Could I do something like this?

BoilTargetOG = TargetOG - (1 - TargetOG) * PercentExtraLiquid
1.03905= 1.055 - (1 - 1.055) * .29

If the target OG was 1.055 and the recipe is set up for 75% efficiency, ideally you will hit 1.055, not 75% of 1.055. The 75% efficiency is already factored into the target OG.

If you're looking at the color through the whole batch (either in a carboy or the boil kettle or a bucket), you'll see a color that's quite a bit darker than the beer is eventually going to be. The yeast settling out after fermentation will also lighten it up a bit.

Did the color look darker than expected in the hydrometer sample tube?

If I read your post right, you were sparging before you collected the first runnings? (You added water before you collected anything from the mash tun?)

I guess that's fine, it's just different than what I do, and I'm curious if you read it somewhere.

The color is similar to cider, maybe a little lighter. To me it's more tan than yellow. What I did exactly: Collected ~1 quart. Recycled the 1 quart. Sparged with 2 gallons @174F. Collected ~1 quart. Sparged with 2 gallons @174F. Proceeded to drain into wort kettle - this took about an hour to complete.

As a side note, I just drained from my counter into the kettle, after the fact I read this is a big no-no due to "hot side aeration"

 

[Killervector]

Again, what was your grain bill? Longer mash times WILL NOT darken your wort. It was either carmelization of the sugars in the boil, or your grain bill that darkened it.

 

[Rick500]

Easiest way to calculate your pre-boil ( = mash & lauter ) efficiency is as follows:

(just an example since I don't know your grain bill)

10 pounds 2-row pale malt = 10 * 36 = 360
1 pound Crystal 40 = 1 * 34 = 34

Total possible points from grain bill at 100% efficiency = 360 + 34 = 394

Let's say you got 7 gallons pre-boil at 1.040.

At 100% efficiency (i.e., you extracted all the sugar possible from the grains), you would have had 7 gallons at (points / gallons) = 394 / 7 = 56 ... so 1.056

Since you got 1.040, your pre-boil or mash/lauter efficiency was 40 / 56 = ~ 0.714 = 71%

 

[bassmosphere]

Again, what was your grain bill? Longer mash times WILL NOT darken your wort. It was either carmelization of the sugars in the boil, or your grain bill that darkened it.

The recipe is below. I didn't make any substitutions.
---

Recipe Type: All Grain
Yeast: US-06
Yeast Starter: No
Batch Size (Gallons): 5
Original Gravity: 1.055
Final Gravity: 1.008
IBU: 13.8
Boiling Time (Minutes): 90
Color: 3.7
Primary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp): 14 at 62 degrees
Tasting Notes: Taste: (41.0 apparently) Very nive simple Wheat beer. Perfect color but the alcohol i

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
0.50 lb Rice Hulls (0.0 SRM) Adjunct 5.00 %
5.50 lb Wheat Malt, Ger (2.0 SRM) Grain 55.00 %
4.00 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 40.00 %
1.15 oz Hallertauer [3.00 %] (90 min) Hops 13.8 IBU
1.00 tbsp PH 5.2 Stabilizer (Mash 90.0 min) Misc
1 Pkgs Safbrew WB-06 (Fermentis #WB-06) Yeast-Wheat


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge
Total Grain Weight: 10.00 lb
----------------------------
Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge
Step Time Name Description Step Temp
90 min Mash In Add 4 gallons of water at 172 F 154.0 F

 

[Rick500]

So if you'd had 100% efficiency (which you'll never hit, btw), you would have ended up at 1.051 pre-boil for 7 gallons.

What was your pre-boil gravity? That number (the 'points' from that number, not 1.xxx) divided by 51 (from the 1.051 above) is your pre-boil efficiency.

 

[pkeeler]

Don't try and assess color until you are drinking it from a glass after all is said and done.

Yes, I will try not to do that again. I calculated the SG of the wort before the boil, but I wasn't sure what to do with this number. I had about 7 gallons in the brewpot so thats about 29% more liquid than is going to be in the final batch. So I need to calculate what my gravity is before the boil to see if I am on track. Could I do something like this?

BoilTargetOG = TargetOG - (1 - TargetOG) * PercentExtraLiquid
1.03905= 1.055 - (1 - 1.055) * .29

Your making it harder than it has to be.

The original gravity is looking for 5 gal. of 1.055; that would be 275 gravity points (55 x 5).

You got 7 gal. of 1.043; that would be 301 gravity points. You actually were at 82% efficiency (9.4% above original recipe assumption of 75%, but this could all be from better malt than the recipe assumed). It is good to know before the boil what you SG is as you can figure out how much beer to make. To get to 1.055, you needed to put about 5.5 gal. of beer in the fermenter.

 

[bassmosphere]

So if you'd had 100% efficiency (which you'll never hit, btw), you would have ended up at 1.051 pre-boil for 7 gallons.

What was your pre-boil gravity? That number (the 'points' from that number, not 1.xxx) divided by 51 (from the 1.051 above) is your pre-boil efficiency.

I don't have my notes in front of me, but if I remember correctly, something like 1.020

 

[bassmosphere]

Don't try and assess color until you are drinking it from a glass after all is said and done.

Good call. Yeah, so I grabbed my notes. The SG before boil was 1.02 at 120F - so I get 1.03 or 150G for 54% efficiency. I think part of the problem could have been that the wheat malt wasn't crushed up very well. I used the store's mill and the pale malt looked good but the wheat malt still looked kind of chunky.

I ordered my own mill so perhaps I just need to adjust the gap to be smaller when I grind down wheat next time?

 

[Rick500]

Also, the farther away from the calibrated temp of (usually) 60F of your hydrometer, the less accurate it will be.

So, you had 7 gallons pre-boil at 1.030. That's 210 points where 357 were available, for 58.8% mash/lauter (or pre-boil) efficiency.

I'm not sure why my numbers are off from your recipe as written -- I'm using gravity points from the grains as listed in BeerSmith, so maybe the author of the recipe was using something different.

Also note that there is a difference between brewhouse efficiency and pre-boil (mash/lauter) efficiency. Brewhouse efficiency also takes into account volume losses from moving the wort from the kettle to the fermenter to the keg/bottles.

 

[Rick500]

You got 7 gal. of 1.043; that would be 301 gravity points. You actually were at 82% efficiency (9.4% above original recipe assumption of 75%, but this could all be from better malt than the recipe assumed). It is good to know before the boil what you SG is as you can figure out how much beer to make. To get to 1.055, you needed to put about 5.5 gal. of beer in the fermenter.

I think he was saying that 1.043 was post-boil, and 7 gallons was pre-boil.

 

[bassmosphere]

I think he was saying that 1.043 was post-boil, and 7 gallons was pre-boil.

Thats right. Would it make sense to say, siphon off a small amount of wort, add some DME, boil and return to the fermeter or best to leave it alone and see how it turns out?

 

[Rick500]

You could boil some DME and add it to the fermenter. (I'd just boil it in water, not the wort...you've already got hops in there, and have already boiled them longer than planned.)

If it were me, I'd just leave it alone, but there's nothing wrong with taking either path.

 

[DrugCoder]

You got 7 gal. of 1.043; that would be 301 gravity points. You actually were at 82% efficiency (9.4% above original recipe assumption of 75%, but this could all be from better malt than the recipe assumed). It is good to know before the boil what you SG is as you can figure out how much beer to make. To get to 1.055, you needed to put about 5.5 gal. of beer in the fermenter.

Does this mean that if he boiled off 1.5 gallons it would raise the gravity from 1.043 to 1.055?

 

[Rick500]

He didn't actually have 7 gallons of 1.043 wort pre-boil, but if he had, then if he'd boiled down to 5.5 gallons, it would have raised the gravity to 1.056.

43 points/gallon * 7 gallons = 310 points

310 points / 5.5 gallons = 56 points/gallon = 1.056 [Edit: make that 54 points/gallon = 1.054... sorry!]

The points stay constant as the volume changes, if all your'e doing is adding or removing (boiling off) water.

 

[Wiezer]

He didn't actually have 7 gallons of 1.043 wort pre-boil, but if he had, then if he'd boiled down to 5.5 gallons, it would have raised the gravity to 1.056.

43 points/gallon * 7 gallons = 310 points

310 points / 5.5 gallons = 56 points/gallon = 1.056

maybe I'm missing something in my calculations, but I came up with these values.

43 points/gallon * 7 gallons = 301 points

301 points / 5.5 gallons = 54 points/gallon = 1.054

Which one is correct?

 

[Rick500]

You're right, it's 1.054. That's what I get for doing math in my head.