First AG Batch 35% efficiency?!?!?!

[Goocher]

So, I had been planning my first AG batch to be a real big beer (SG 1.110ish), mainly because I love big beers and thought, even if I screw it up really bad I'll still end up with some kind of beer. Well, that's exactly what happened.

I ended up with a pre-boil gravity right around 1.04. I just about cried...

I improvised and threw in just about everything I had lying around, 1# light DME, 2# dark brown sugar & 12.5oz of 100% pure maple syrup.

I ended up with a SG (post boil) of about 1.10. Not bad but not the monstrous IPA i had planned for. More of a heavy brown maple now...

The following days after I was trying to think of what went wrong. I thought my techniques, temperatures, etc. were all fine. The only thing I could think of is that my thermometer (came with the in-laws turkey fryer) was bad. I ordered a digital thermometer and just got it last night. I put some hot water in a cup and put both thermometers in there and what did I get?

21 degrees difference!!!!!!!!!!!!

There's your problem. I was mashing around 153 but in reality it was more like 132.

I'm pissed I didn't spend the $10 earlier.....

 

[buzzkill]

I would think even with a low mash temp,you would still get about the same SG. just a way lower FG. how many lbs. of grain and batch size?

 

[Goocher]

5.25 gal batch size with 22.00# grain

 

[Goocher]

The grain was a couple weeks old, but does that matter?

 

[AmandaK]

Jesus. My first all-grain efficiency SUCKED. But not that bad.

Getting used to your system is fun, no?

 

[olivergothe]

old grain won't lower your efficiency i believe. It may be oxidized though if it was stored crushed

 

[92greenyj]

it could. Also how well the grains were milled has a huge impact. the temperature also hurt you. thats way below the starch conversion level.

and 22lbs of grain for a 5.5 gallon batch? that seems big even for a barley wine. how much mash water did you use? How much sparge water? did you mix the two well prior to taking your PB gravity? since your thermometer was broken im guessing you didnt temp correct your gravity readings.

Also, how much wort did you have prior to boiling?

 

[buzzkill]

was the grain even crushed? that mush grain should make a big beer even if you had problems. tell us your brewing procidure.

 

[wildwest450]

and 22lbs of grain for a 5.5 gallon batch? that seems big even for a barley wine.

Not at all, my last bw had 24.5lbs of grain in it.

 

[Justibone]

Using a lot of grain will decrease your efficiency, but it won't decrease it *that* much.

I think from the recipes section you can expect about 60% efficiency when you use that much grain... but others would know better.

 

[Goocher]

Mashed in with close to 7 gal and fly sparged with maybe 3-3.5gal. I ended up with probably 6.5-7 gallons pre-boil.

 

[Goocher]

Mash time was 60 after mixing it real good and the fly sparge took around 45min.

I drained the first runnings very slowly.

I have a 60qt ice cube cooler with a CPVC false bottom.

 

[92greenyj]

Mashed in with close to 7 gal and fly sparged with maybe 3-3.5gal. I ended up with probably 6.5-7 gallons pre-boil.

im thinking maybe you had a sparge issue. Normally when I brew I mash with 1.5qts per lb of grain. then batch sparge with about a gallon less than I mashed with. Let the sparge soak for 20 minutes then pump that into my BK.

Did you mix the grains well when you mashed in? its possible you had some dough balls or large chunks of grain that didn't get wet. How long did you mash for?

 

[Goocher]

I thought I mixed the mash up really good. I was excited to try my homemade mash paddle. I mixed it for maybe 4-5 min

 

[92greenyj]

hmmmm. How well were your grains milled? Walk us through your process step by step man. Something is obviously very wrong someplace in your process. Even on my worst batches my efficiency was still in the mid 60s.

What are you using for water masurements? I know from personal experience that if your water measurements are off your efficiency will be. I had that issue myself. Then I re-calibrated all my measuring marks on my equipment and saw a 10% improvement in efficiency instantly. (some of my marks were way off originally)

 

[Goocher]

Alright I'll walk you through excatly what I did.

Poured 170 degree (actually 149) water into mash tun, added 22.00lbs grain, mixed well for 4-5min. Let sit for 30 min, then mixed again. Let it sit for another 30min, recirculated the first couple quarts, noticed immediately that it never cleared up or clarified. Continued on anyways. Drained the mash tun completely of any wort. Started up fly sparging with 168 degree (really 147), kept a steady inch of water on top of the grain as I slowly drained off. The whole sparge took around 45 min to complete.

 

[Tombstone0]

Alright I'll walk you through excatly what I did.

Poured 170 degree (actually 149) water into mash tun, added 22.00lbs grain, mixed well for 4-5min. Let sit for 30 min, then mixed again. Let it sit for another 30min, recirculated the first couple quarts, noticed immediately that it never cleared up or clarified. Continued on anyways. Drained the mash tun completely of any wort. Started up fly sparging with 168 degree (really 147), kept a steady inch of water on top of the grain as I slowly drained off. The whole sparge took around 45 min to complete.

I batch sparge so I'm not 100% sure on this, but I don't think you're supposed to drain the wort before you begin fly sparging.

 

[Reno_eNVy]

I batch sparge so I'm not 100% sure on this, but I don't think you're supposed to drain the wort before you begin fly sparging.

What he did is okay. It looks like he drained it completely, but then filled it up and maintained the liquid level 1" above the grain bed... I read that correctly, right Goocher?

I really think it's your mash temperature. At 132*F, you're doing what's called a "protein mash" and is used often in grain bills with decent amounts of cereals (wheat, rye, oat.) This is the ideal temperature for the enzymes protease and peptase, which break down proteins and other insoluble and non-fermentable material into usable units (i.e. amino acids.) You're missing out (or just severely lacking) on alpha-amylase and beta-amylase, the "saccharification rest" enzymes, which convert starches into sugars.

The low efficiency, in my opinion, is due to not enough conversion resulting in a lot of insoluble starches which, IIRC, don't affect specific gravity.

That, and the fact that your sparge water was cooler than it should have been, and good lauter efficiency has a lot to do with making sure all of the sugars are dissolved into your runnings.

EDIT: Goocher, also noticed in your process that you said your runnings never cleared up during vourlauf. That, again IIRC, is another sign of starches that have yet to be converted.

 

[Goocher]

So in the end, it was all due to my damn thermometer right?

What do you think I'll end up with?

Will it even be drinkable?

 

[tunoffun]

So in the end, it was all due to my damn thermometer right?

I'd say the evidence definitely points that way.

What do you think I'll end up with?

Will it even be drinkable?

I don't see how anyone could possibly answer that question considering your last-minute recipe 'revisions'.

My prediction is that it will be alcoholic - and, uhmmm... interesting. That's about as far as I'm willing to go

 

[Goocher]

So, something like a Keystone with shot of vodka and a teaspoon of maple syrup?

Yummm!!

I'm so excited.....

 

[tunoffun]

So, something like a Keystone with shot of vodka and a teaspoon of maple syrup?

Yummm!!

I'm so excited.....

LOL...

Might just be the best damned thing you've ever made! You never know!

But I doubt it

 

[Bobby_M]

Well yeah, you probably didn't convert much at 130F. That's at the very bottom of the range of when b-amylase becomes active, but it would probably take 2 hours to fully convert because it takes a single maltose off the sugar chains at a time. In other words, it takes a lot long than if alpha amylase were joining the party.

Yes, it's also true that you shouldn't fully drain the first runnings prior to a fly sparge.

 

[Goocher]

I forgot where I saw it on here, but it goes something like

"In brewing there are no mistakes, just limited editions"

This is definitely one of those "limited editions".

I hope....

 

[Goocher]

So should I drain it at all before starting my sparge?

 

[LaurieGator]

What are you mashing in? If you are mashing in a cooler, did you preheat it? I find my Igloo cooler MLT loses 10-15 degrees when I add my grains, so I preheat for 10 mins before adding grains...