Firestone/Racetrack keg lids

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jeebuscrisis

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So my cousin passed me down some kegs (some ball lock/some pin lock 🙃) but also what appears to be a 10 gallon firestone with a racetrack keg lid. The lid has a normal pressure relief valve like you'd see on a typical ball lock but when I looked at the botton of the lid it appears to have been welded off. I reached out to chicompany hoping they have a functioning lid replacement but my question is WHY someone would do that? The keg itself has a ball lock liquid out post and diptube but is missing entirely the gas post, it's just a hole. I have no idea why a brewer would want this type of configuration.

Also, Do I need a special ball lock fitting for the gas post or can I just use a typical gas post assembly?
 
It's possible it was used as a keg fermenter and the gas post was removed to use a blowoff hose there.
I did consider that it might have lived its life as a fermenter, seeing that the lid had the PRV welded shut, but that's what really confused me. Even if using as a fermenter I don't see any reason to weld close the port to the PRV inside the lid? Just boggling, and now I have to find a functioning lid lol

BTW, I am not able to ask about the keg, the person who previously had it is incapacitated and my cousin was clearing out their stuff and they have no idea, either.
 
Attaching some pics for reference
LidwithPRVSealed.jpg
PRVsealed.jpg
RaceTrackLid.jpg
 
Maybe there was a persistent leak that wouldn't stop from that port so it kept bubbling out, and the only solution was radical... A truly unsolvable mystery, I s'pose... :no:
 
I did consider that it might have lived its life as a fermenter, seeing that the lid had the PRV welded shut, but that's what really confused me. Even if using as a fermenter I don't see any reason to weld close the port to the PRV inside the lid? Just boggling, and now I have to find a functioning lid lol

BTW, I am not able to ask about the keg, the person who previously had it is incapacitated and my cousin was clearing out their stuff and they have no idea, either.
Make sure you match the right type racetrack lid. If you go to the chicocompany site, they list several.

https://www.chicompany.net/lids-parts-c-376_1_495/racetrack-small-dome-p-3362.html

https://www.kegoutlet.com/keg-lid-reconditioned-racetrack-style.html?pid=1985
 
appears to be a 10 gallon firestone with a racetrack keg lid
If you decide to change out the lid, or restoring the PRV housing back to original condition you may want to consider using a square O-ring gasket made for racetrack lids instead of the round oval type used with the usual oval type lids. I have 2 -10Gal kegs and had limited success trying to seal them with the oval type o-rings. I also tried the softer silicon oval round type but the only type that worked for me was the square type. Also note there were 2 types of racetrack lids large and small so if ordering parts make sure you know what type you are dealing with.
 
you may want to consider using a square O-ring gasket made for racetrack lids instead of the round oval type used with the usual oval type lids
Don't just consider them. Get them.
Racetrack lids are available here:
I eventually found brand new (not reconditioned) lids somewhere, but unfortunately I'm traveling right now and it will take me a while to dig up the info on those.
 
With that drilled out gas port you're probably going to need to weld something on there to be able to attach a post. So you might want to consider drilling out the other one too and installing modern standard threads that will work with universal posts and poppets.
 
Maybe there was a persistent leak that wouldn't stop from that port so it kept bubbling out, and the only solution was radical... A truly unsolvable mystery, I s'pose... :no:
Was thinking the same thing. Can't leak if there's nothing to leak from *TIG noises*
 
That looks like a blob of JB Weld epoxy rather than an actual weld bead. More evidence is the fact that the PRV is still threaded in. Likely the thread-in PRV was leaking either because the rubber on the tip was worn out or the seat was damaged. Either way, it was probably in a dire situation when a beer was at stake. A sharp utility knife can shave material off a JB weld blob so try it out.

The open post hole is a bit of a mystery but you can either weld or go weldless.

1735261586925.png
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Thanks everyone for the input. I didn't get a response from chicompany and kegoutlet doesn't have a way for me to purchase as far as the racetrack lids go.

Sucks I'm kind of at a standstill until I can locate one. Bobby, I grinned a little when I saw your reply as I had already added the weldless bulkhead to my cart in anticipation of a new lid. I am also trying to find a welder because I'd feel better about holding pressure.

I'll see if I can't scrape off what's blocking the PRV because if it is JB weld that would be a relief as I have some spare valves to replace with. I'll give that a go tomorrow.

Cheers!

Edit: I realize I said in my original post I said ball lock liquid post and the picture shows a pin lock - I have the parts to change it to ball lock so I misspoke.
 
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Don't just consider them. Get them.

I eventually found brand new (not reconditioned) lids somewhere, but unfortunately I'm traveling right now and it will take me a while to dig up the info on those.
If you do find the time and find it I would be grateful. It looks like the bail (lid rod) on the lid was oversized to really make sure it sealed shut (note the rubbed off bail ends). So it'd be great to find an appropriate lid.. it does measure around 3x4" style give or take where you measure the opening.

If I can get all the parts to rebuild it I'll give it a full clean up and post pictures. It is dirty but doesn't have major dents or stickers so it'd be neat to get it shiny and working again.
 
That looks like a blob of JB Weld epoxy rather than an actual weld bead. More evidence is the fact that the PRV is still threaded in. Likely the thread-in PRV was leaking either because the rubber on the tip was worn out or the seat was damaged. Either way, it was probably in a dire situation when a beer was at stake. A sharp utility knife can shave material off a JB weld blob so try it out.

The open post hole is a bit of a mystery but you can either weld or go weldless.

View attachment 865355View attachment 865356

Bobby, you were right, it was JB weld, and it was packed in there to the point I had to drill it out not just cut it off with a knife. <insert dremel montage>

I am soaking it now in PBW and need to scrub the crap out of it. The threads on the PRV were basically disintegrated when I was able to finally unscrew it, but your suspicions were dead on. I see zero rubber. Looks like it was a panic mode...... but why expose the beer to JB weld? wtf.

Edit: So I guess now I'm looking for racetrack lid orings as well. Yay projects.
 

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Looks like it was Adventures in Homebrewing but it also looks like they no longer have them. Sorry.
Dang. Well thank you for looking.

I think I might be able to restore the lid? I soaked it and then scrubbed a bit with BKF but then I saw this ring around the outside of the PRV? There's discoloration on the top side but not as bad on the bottom side.

I feel like at this point I should just be asking if anyone wants to help me restore a racetrack lid.

The keg cleaned up nice. The keg posts are correctly sized for gas and liquid and I DO have a liquid dip tube for it so all I need is the new ball lock fittings and somehow get a lid together.


Still need to run the polisher over everything but was cool to see it shine up so quickly.
 

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If you still need a lid I have this one. It's just the bare metal. If you think you could use it, it's free but you'd have to pay the shipping. The keg it came from is gone, it was too damaged to repair. There's a kind of replacemrnt prv that might fit the hole. I had two of those prvs but don't have them anymore. They attached with a hex nut, weldless style.
 

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If you still need a lid I have this one. It's just the bare metal. If you think you could use it, it's free but you'd have to pay the shipping. The keg it came from is gone, it was too damaged to repair. There's a kind of replacemrnt prv that might fit the hole. I had two of those prvs but don't have them anymore. They attached with a hex nut, weldless style.
is that a 3"x4" racetrack? I don't like the idea of doing weldless style just because I've already had to go weldless on the in/out and I'm still trying to track down the appropriate lid orings. I'm interested, for sure, though if it's the right size.
 
I don't like the idea of doing weldless style
I wouldn't worry about using a weldless plastic PRV as they work very well. I have 1 lid like the one shown above and have had the keg (spare) under pressure for over 2 years now using the original style PRV, I take pressure readings about every 6 months and have lost approx .5 lbs over that time period. (pressure loss could be from on/off with my spunding valve?) Anyway if you can find the original style gray plastic type with nut/washer it will be fine. Just a note as with all PRV's if they get gummed up they will leak. For some reason I find the flip style plastic ones do get gummed more frequently and require special attention when cleaning.
 
is that a 3"x4" racetrack? I don't like the idea of doing weldless style just because I've already had to go weldless on the in/out and I'm still trying to track down the appropriate lid orings. I'm interested, for sure, though if it's the right size.
It came off a 5 gallon. The raised oval section is ~4"x3" on the major x minor axes. A little longer if including the edge that sits against the keg opening. Otherwise it sits flat on top of my counter so it's not bent. Keg was a real beater it came off of. One thing you have to be careful of with the weldless style prvs is that they may be aluminum. I soaked mine in PBW and it ended up pitted/oxidized.
 
It came off a 5 gallon. The raised oval section is ~4"x3" on the major x minor axes. A little longer if including the edge that sits against the keg opening. Otherwise it sits flat on top of my counter so it's not bent. Keg was a real beater it came off of. One thing you have to be careful of with the weldless style prvs is that they may be aluminum. I soaked mine in PBW and it ended up pitted/oxidized.
The size is right, I just did a quick googlin and can't seem to locate a weldless SS PRV fitting that would allow me to screw in a PRV... Definitely don't want to mix aluminum with SS... I also prefer the SS PRV's themselves over the plastic ones.. I've had too many plastic ones just break off over time.


Let me try to track down a weldless SS PRV fitting, if I can find one I'll be happy to take it off your hands.
 
I've got the same 10 gallon with the large racetrack lid and original Challenger style ball lock posts. I've used it as a fermenter since the mid-1990's. My lid actually seals fine with standard oval keg lid o-rings.

Bigger challenge for me is with the poppets. The issue is that the metal portion of the poppet is larger than modern universal poppets but the original poppets don't use standard o-rings so I don't have a way to replace the seals. Given that I bought this thing used over 30 years ago it's a bit worrisome that they've never been changed.
 
I've got the same 10 gallon with the large racetrack lid and original Challenger style ball lock posts. I've used it as a fermenter since the mid-1990's. My lid actually seals fine with standard oval keg lid o-rings.

Bigger challenge for me is with the poppets. The issue is that the metal portion of the poppet is larger than modern universal poppets but the original poppets don't use standard o-rings so I don't have a way to replace the seals. Given that I bought this thing used over 30 years ago it's a bit worrisome that they've never been changed.
I was able to change out the liquid/gas posts and indeed use a normal o ring and got a seal.

Until I didn't... the PRV is leaking/won't seal inside at the bottom of the PRV chamber.. I threw a bunch of lube on it and it sealed, but once I pulled the ring it won't seal anymore. It's as if the PRV is JUST short enough that it can't get a good seal around the hole. I'm guessing this is what led to the jb weld being gobbed on to just seal it. Now I'm curious how I can fix that.
 
Now I'm curious how I can fix that.
If the current situation is hopeless, is it possible to drill out the prv and add a gas post? Then you could place a spunding valve there set to whether you’re fermenting or dispensing. I don’t know; I am sure someone here has a better idea. 🤷🏻‍♂️
 
If the current situation is hopeless, is it possible to drill out the prv and add a gas post? Then you could place a spunding valve there set to whether you’re fermenting or dispensing. I don’t know; I am sure someone here has a better idea. 🤷🏻‍♂️
For sure a thought, but I get nervous without a dedicated relief valve, feels like an accident waiting to happen. I have a couple step bits. I have no idea if they'll make it through the thicker SS lid vs. when I used them on thin walled pots. I might give it a whirl. maybe just drill the whole thing out and see if I can find a weldless PRV valve to replace with.
 
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