Final product - Smells of corn

[CanofShiz]

Relatively new to brewing, BIAB. I believe I made a rookie mistake. I usually make some version of a light beer and have had several brews turn out great. @bracconiere

I have a brewbuilt kettle and the lid has a notch in it for reasons above my pay grade. After like my 3rd brew day I was like hey I can just boil with the lid on and the notch will allow the steam to escape. My last 2 batches of beer taste and smell like corn. None of these recipes have any corn in the grain bill. Is the reason that my beer tastes like corn because I boiled the wort with the lid on for 60 minutes? Even though there is a notch in my lid condensation will build up and drip back into the kettle causing those off flavors? I feel like a complete idiot that I missed the boil with the lid off chapter in all these brewing books I have collected. Has anyone else had similar experiences? Is there something else that I am overlooking that could be the problem? I use tap water, mine tastes fine.

My plan going forward is to boil with the lid off from now on.
Here is a link to the kettle I have. If you look through the pictures you can see the notch.

 

[bracconiere]

corn flavor with no corn? someone else will have to talk about Diacetyl...and i got to thinking the notch is probably because it's a repurposed kettle for commercial kitchens and for the spoon and cooking stuff like pasta sauce.

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

I believe you've answered your own question. Keep the lid off during the boil!

No, dripping condensate isn't causing the corn. Corn = DMS. The DMS isn't being driven off by having the lid on.

DMS – creamed corn, cooked corn flavor. Dimethyl Sulfide (DMS)
Tastes/Smells Like: Cooked vegetables, especially creamed corn, cabbage, tomato, shellfish/oyster-like flavors
Possible Causes: S-methyl methionine (SMM) is created during the malting process of grain and is later converted to DMS when heated. Darker base grains have less DMS as the kilning process converts SMM to DMS and drives it off before going into the wort. This makes DMS naturally more prevalent in pale ales and lagers.
How to Avoid:
When boiling wort, DMS is driven off through evaporation. It is very important to always maintain a strong rolling boil for at least one hour. Some brewers boil for 90 minutes to ensure that as much DMS is driven off as possible. Avoid letting condensation drip back into the wort and never cover your kettle completely during the boil. Long cooling times can also lead to excess amounts of DMS. Cool your wort to pitching temperature as quickly as possible with a wort chiller or ice bath. Finally, a strong fermentation with lots of Co2 production helps to clean up DMS since the bubbles carry DMS away, so pitching high quality yeast is a must.

Pils malt is known for DMS. That's why all my brews with the majority Pils malt bill get a 90 minute boil.

 

[bracconiere]

Darker base grains have less DMS as the kilning process converts SMM to DMS and drives it off before going into the wort. This makes DMS naturally more prevalent in pale ales and lagers.

i already learned something! (so when i'm malting my barley, that could be why i don't get that sweetness and it's more malty! @CanofShiz told it'd be a learning experience for both us )

 

[bracconiere]

oh and @CanofShiz if it is indeed DMS as @Tobor_8thMan said. you might want to try building a recipe with light munich malt as your base malt...it's kilned hotter then pale. but not really a dark grain, and has plenty diastatic power, (the ability to convert starch to simple sugars during the mash)

 

[CanofShiz]

I believe you've answered your own question. Keep the lid off during the boil!

No, dripping condensate isn't causing the corn. Corn = DMS. The DMS isn't being driven off by having the lid on.

DMS – creamed corn, cooked corn flavor. Dimethyl Sulfide (DMS)
Tastes/Smells Like: Cooked vegetables, especially creamed corn, cabbage, tomato, shellfish/oyster-like flavors
Possible Causes: S-methyl methionine (SMM) is created during the malting process of grain and is later converted to DMS when heated. Darker base grains have less DMS as the kilning process converts SMM to DMS and drives it off before going into the wort. This makes DMS naturally more prevalent in pale ales and lagers.
How to Avoid:
When boiling wort, DMS is driven off through evaporation. It is very important to always maintain a strong rolling boil for at least one hour. Some brewers boil for 90 minutes to ensure that as much DMS is driven off as possible. Avoid letting condensation drip back into the wort and never cover your kettle completely during the boil. Long cooling times can also lead to excess amounts of DMS. Cool your wort to pitching temperature as quickly as possible with a wort chiller or ice bath. Finally, a strong fermentation with lots of Co2 production helps to clean up DMS since the bubbles carry DMS away, so pitching high quality yeast is a must.

Pils malt is known for DMS. That's why all my brews with the majority Pils malt bill get a 90 minute boil.

Thanks for the information. I will for sure be boiling with the lid off from now on. I am realizing in this hobby there are several steps that are simple, but all equally important.

 

[CanofShiz]

oh and @CanofShiz if it is indeed DMS as @Tobor_8thMan said. you might want to try building a recipe with light munich malt as your base malt...it's kilned hotter then pale. but not really a dark grain, and has plenty diastatic power, (the ability to convert starch to simple sugars during the mash)

That's a good idea I can try that. I guess I never realized that 2 row is considered a pilsner malt? maybe I should have posted this in the in the beginning brewing section. Thanks for help.

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

When I first begin/was interested in home brewing I read Charlie Papazian's "The New Complete Joy of Home Brewing" 3 times. Yes, 3 times. I thought, "Geez... this is complex. How does anyone remember all these things?" And then it dawned on me. It was similar to shop class where the teacher always told the story about "Yea, Charile was leaning over Bill and got hit in the eye with Charlie's ball pein hammer." Of course, this never really, actually happened. The shop teacher was attempting to make us aware, to make us know what we are ALWAYS doing, and to be aware. The same applies to hombrewing. Once I equated homebrewing to my shop teacher's "stories" I was off and running...

 

[CanofShiz]

When I first begin/was interested in home brewing I read Charlie Papazian's "The New Complete Joy of Home Brewing" 3 times. Yes, 3 times. I thought, "Geez... this is complex. How does anyone remember all these things?" And then it dawned on me. It was similar to shop class where the teacher always told the story about "Yea, Charile was leaning over Bill and got hit in the eye with Charlie's ball pein hammer." Of course, this never really, actually happened. The shop teacher was attempting to make us aware, to make us know what we are ALWAYS doing, and to be aware. The same applies to hombrewing. Once I equated homebrewing to my shop teacher's "stories" I was off and running...

That's funny. I have read Charlie Papazian's "The New Complete Joy of Home Brewing" as well. Now I use it like an encyclopedia. I had never heard of John Palmers "How to brew" until a few days ago when someone here mentioned it. I read part of the free pdf version and ordered a hard copy. I am looking forward to passing out each night reading it. For me I have found books are a great starting point. Once I actually started brewing that's when they became something else entirely. Things started really to make more sense.

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

Oh, I've read "How to Brew" more than once...

Absolutely, they are warning us, getting us prepared to actually do and BE AWARE of what we are doing.

 

[bracconiere]

2 row is considered a pilsner malt?

i don't think it is? but it's close. i've been wondering about my homemalt and why it tastes more malty then store bought, stor bought is kinda sweeter tasting. my homemalt is more bready, after tobor's comment about kilning, i'm wondering if it's because i kiln my malt at 160-170 for a full 12 hours, instead trying to do it quick with stiring...(i have no way to stir it in the oven, so i do all my malt low and slow)

Palmers "How to brew" until a few days ago when someone here mentioned it. I read part of the free pdf version and ordered a hard copy. I am looking forward to passing out each night reading it.

you need to post that in you know you're a homebrewer when!

then loop this for some relaxing background noise for sleeping!

 

[bracconiere]

hey @Tobor_8thMan , what if @CanofShiz , freshened his malt in the oven on low for like an hour before milling? think that would help with his problem?

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

hey @Tobor_8thMan , what if @CanofShiz , freshened his malt in the oven on low for like an hour before milling? think that would help with his problem?

No, because DMS comes out during the boil.

 

[camonick]

I never realized that 2 row is considered a pilsner malt?

It’s the other way around... Pilsner malt is a 2-row. “2-row” is just a generic term used for pale malt. There are 2-row and 6-row barley varieties. It refers to the appearance of the grain head not the kind of beer it will produce.
Left: 2-row Right: 6-row

2-row is the most common type of barley used for malting grain for beer production and mostly the only kind used outside the United States. The big American macrobreweries use 6-row but it is more commonly used for animal feed. Here’s a fairly lengthy article to help explain.
https://www.morebeer.com/articles/Comparison_Two_Six_Row

 

[camonick]

...and @bracconiere , if you’re buying your barley at the feed store, it’s most likely 6-row and that’s where you’re getting the different flavor profile.

 

[bracconiere]

...and @bracconiere , if you’re buying your barley at the feed store, it’s most likely 6-row and that’s where you’re getting the different flavor profile.

i know it's 6-row. i've cleaned my sprouts and they've grown. saw the 6 rows in the grass. we're just a few days or week off from a second opinion about it! i'm excited!

and to stay on topic, @CanofShiz they sell 6-row malt, and that would be what miller lite would be using i believe?

 

[CanofShiz]

It’s the other way around... Pilsner malt is a 2-row. “2-row” is just a generic term used for pale malt. There are 2-row and 6-row barley varieties. It refers to the appearance of the grain head not the kind of beer it will produce.
Left: 2-row Right: 6-row
View attachment 709744
2-row is the most common type of barley used for malting grain for beer production and mostly the only kind used outside the United States. The big American macrobreweries use 6-row but it is more commonly used for animal feed. Here’s a fairly lengthy article to help explain.
https://www.morebeer.com/articles/Comparison_Two_Six_Row

Thank for you pointing me in the correct direction.

 

[ba-brewer]

I have a brewbuilt kettle and the lid has a notch in it for reasons above my pay grade.

The notch comes in handy if you have a immersion chiller and you want to put the lid on while you do a steep or whirlpool addition. My big azz spoon also stays in the kettle and pokes through the cut out too.

 

[bracconiere]

The notch comes in handy if you have a immersion chiller and you want to put the lid on while you do a steep or whirlpool addition. My big azz spoon also stays in the kettle and pokes through the cut out too.

didn't think of an immersion chiller....

 

[bwible]

6 row is not bad to brew with - I wouldn’t automatically call it animal feed and forget about ever using it. Most of the pre-prohibition recipes you see will call for 6 row and a good percentage of corn. Funny as we’re talking about corn flavor. 6 row is very high in diastatic power, meaning it has plenty of enzymes to convert itself plus whatever you put in with it. It’s used by big breweries because its cheaper, growing more barley seeds in the same acreage.

 

[Gusso]

The notch comes in handy if you have a immersion chiller and you want to put the lid on while you do a steep or whirlpool addition. My big azz spoon also stays in the kettle and pokes through the cut out too.

Years ago, I dropped my brew pot lid. It made a dent but luckily it worked out fine as it provided A notch for my chiller!

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

And then brewers see a steam condenser and the confusion, questions, wondering, planning, scheaming, etc begins again.

 

[doug293cz]

And then brewers see a steam condenser and the confusion, questions, wondering, planning, scheaming, etc begins again.

What's your point here?

Brew on

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

What's your point here?

Brew on

With a steam condenser the lid is kept on!

 

[bracconiere]

With a steam condenser the lid is kept on!

unless your condenser is setup for reflux all the vapor would still come off and go down a drain though?

 

[bracconiere]

oh, and for @CanofShiz might get creative and do something like a diacetyl rest but at like 95f? that's the boiling point of DMS....(just a idea don't take it too seriously )

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

Yes, vapor and steam goes down the drain, but I didn't want to confuse/make this thread more complex as the OP is not using a steam condenser. Therefore, remove the lid when boiling.