Filtering vs Cold crash/gelatin

[Sourz4life]

So I wanted peoples opinion on these 2 methods. I'll be both kegging and bottling some beers here soon and wanted some feedback on how these methods have worked for others. I know for bottling for instance the left over yeast carbonates it, but from what I've seen if you use a 30 micron screen when filtering it should leave some yeast in it allowing you to bottle if that's what your doing. Now what I'm curious of, is will the filter remove anything I truly don't want it to. I now cost wise, cold crash and gelatin are cheaper, but I'm going for effectiveness. With the keg I see it being less of an issue as I'm going to force carb it anyways so left over yeast is no big deal.

 

[bobeer]

I don't think you want to use a screen to filter your fermented beer. You run the risk of causing oxidation which is bad for beer and will cause the beer to taste very dull and cardboard like.

I cold crash all my beers no matter if I'm kegging or bottling. There will will be enough yeast left in suspension to carb the beer if you cold crash first. There's nothing wrong with bottling already cold beer. My beer is usually pretty clear after a week or so in the keg after it's fully conditioned.

I've never used gelatin before because I hate jello lol. I get none of it really ends up in the beer, I think, but the thought of using gelatin makes me want to puke! It does make for some clear beer though!

 

[kombat]

@bobeer is right, and besides, I don't think a 30 micron filter would make any meaningful difference anyway. Heck, I filtered a batch with a 5 micron filter once (using one of those water filter canisters), and it didn't do anything. I believe you have to get all the way down to 1 micron before you really start filtering out yeast.

I would cold-crash and use gelatin, if clarity were the goal, and even then there will be sufficient yeast left in the beer to bottle-condition.

 

[Sourz4life]

I've been leaning towards cold crashing/gelatin(for kegging), but I saw someone using the filtering method and was just curious of how effective it really was.

 

[AkBrew907]

I cold crash and keg. If I want bottles I use a home made bottle filler. I am to impatient to wait for bottles to naturally carbonate, plus I like how clean it is when you fill from the keg

 

[FVillatoro]

It's seriously simple, cheap and effective to just keg, chill for a day or 2, fine with gelatin and wait a week for very bright beer.
I strongly recommend this method:

Get some knox gelatin packs, open a pack and dissolve in 6oz of cool water, stir with a thermometer or something clean, pop in microwave until it's 160 degrees, stir until it's translucent and dissolves completely.
Open keg, throw in keg, close quickly, purge co2, wait a week.

I've tossed this pic before rockin, but this pic should speak for the results I get:

 

[SevenOaks]

No filter, no gelatin, just patience

 

[BurntOrngeLonghorn84]

I cold crash and filter, but keg. Sure there's a chance you could oxidize it, but I have a closed system between two kegs pushed by CO2. It is two stages 5 -> 1 micron. The 5 micron catches most everything visible, the 1 micron always looks pretty clean.

Unless you have hop particles, 30 micron would be pointless to filter with.

I'd never go back to not filtering my beer. Just a personal preference.

 

[Firewalker11]

I filter too but not for the standard reasons. My son is a Vegan and does not consume any animal stuff, even gelatin so I started to filter. I now find that it removes all of the hops debris and yeast if I use a 1 micron (1µ) filter and I get a near sterile beer with a 0.35 micron (0.35 µ) filter with no change in quality.

BTW- from what I have been to uncover so far, large breweries filter because its cheaper in the long run. I filter my cider too so that I can freely add back juice to sweeten it to taste with no worries about it being consumed by the yeast.

I hear a lot about oxidization when filtering. No worries, soak the filter in StarSan, fill the housing with it, push it all out with CO2 and once empty, filter away knowing that the purged system will have no ill effect.

Strictly speaking though, go with the gelatin for clear beer, its pretty fast and cheap!

 

[brewerdoc]

So I wanted peoples opinion on these 2 methods. I'll be both kegging and bottling some beers here soon and wanted some feedback on how these methods have worked for others. I know for bottling for instance the left over yeast carbonates it, but from what I've seen if you use a 30 micron screen when filtering it should leave some yeast in it allowing you to bottle if that's what your doing. Now what I'm curious of, is will the filter remove anything I truly don't want it to. I now cost wise, cold crash and gelatin are cheaper, but I'm going for effectiveness. With the keg I see it being less of an issue as I'm going to force carb it anyways so left over yeast is no big deal.

Both have their pros and cons. There is nothing wrong with filtering but just know that on average yeasts size is on the order of 5-20 microns, so your 30 micron screen will be missing most of your yeasts and will only be filtering larger particles.

I do both and filtering will add a more clean, light lager type of flavor to your beer while gelatin will clear your beer and also create a crisp beer but there will be some of that yeasts flavor that remains. Both in my opinion have their place in brewing depending on what type of beer you are brewing and taste profile you desire. I wrote about this a bit on my blog if you're interested.

http://www.brewerdoc.com/add-some-clarity-to-your-beer/

 

[Jokester]

I have triple cold crashed without gelatin the freeze concentrate I made from a cloudy sediment filled beer and ended up with a very very clear and awesome looking drink. I plan a 4th run on a mason jar worth with gelatin this time and after 24 hrs I plan on parking it on a bag of frozen peas in the freezer for a few hours to freeze the gelatin and sediment in place and pour off the even clearer top. Now does any of the gelatin be left over in the beer after the crash and pour off ?

Also the sediment is mostly yeast after the 2nd or 3rd time ? What is it ? I know the beer had particles, a bunch of cloudiness which is from all the tiny bits of grain etc as well as oils from the hops, and likely the freezing took most of the particles leaving me with more of the oils and ? yeast ?

Now the previous cold crash gave me a nice tight sediment where I could see the different color almost like an oil with the sediment.

Thanks.
Srinath.

 

[Vale71]

Yeah, it's probably awesome looking but after all that handling it will probably be oxidized as hell...

 

[Robert65]

I have lengthy experience with both plate filtration and various fining methods. These can produce clear beer nut I've never found a way to do either without both oxidation and stripping of some desirable elements. My preference by far is to cold crash in a keg with either a trimmed or, better yet, floating g dip tube. Combined with spunding in the keg, this will give the clearest and freshest beer possible by any means, and is the easiest as well!

 

[Jokester]

Its not beer any more, Its likely pushing 30% because I mathematically shoot for 35%, if I put in 48 oz of 6% I'd only melt out 8oz, but some alcohol likely left in the ice.
I will now have to see what oxidized beer tastes like - I know oxidized wine and its taste, does oxidized beer taste similar ?
I have given this to many many beer and hard liquor drinkers and the comment I get is, it tastes like beer but is far far stronger.

Let me ask the guy I'm gifting my last tranch of Double Indemnity to what he thought of the previous batch.

Cool.
Srinath.

 

[Jokester]

I have occasionally got a very strong alcohol tasting part, and usually its in the first few oz of the melt out, and by the time I get to that 35% concentrated volume, its nearly all but disappeared. I attributed it to the residual carbonation (because the bottle when frozen will fizz and let out co2 like you're opening a soda bottle) or the super low freeze point liquids have separated out from the beer - I thought it was one of the 2.
Now that I read up on oxidation, I am nearly certain its not oxidized.
Maybe cos its frozen and then barely gets to melting point before the next cold crash takes it back frozen.
Cool.
Srinath.

 

[Jokester]

Does the possibility of higher ABV as well as the low carb nature of a concentrated beer like these - I'll guess these to be 30-35% ABV and likely 2-5% carbs by weight - make it less susceptible to oxidation ? The thing will not freeze in a -10-15 degree freezer to a solid. Slurpee is the closest I can say.

Cool.
Srinath.

 

[pdxal]

Srinath, how are you freezing your beer? Are you measuring your freezer temperature in Fahrenheit or Celsius?
When I have tried to freeze concentrate the beverage doesn't taste oxidized, but there are many subtle effects from oxidation that are not the "wet cardboard" taste. My applejack has been good, but not as tasty as fresh cider.

https://www.popsci.com/science/article/2013-01/beersci-how-make-strong-beer-stronger/

 

[Jokester]

I put cold beer in the fridge, without opening. As soon as I open it, it goes into a 2l soda bottle. 4 cans go into 1 2l bottle, and that is squeezed - but not to having no air in it, to allow for expansion and a narrower depth for even freezing and better melt out. After its frozen to a rock - 48 hrs in a -20F freezer, I invert it onto a mason jar. The melt off is calculated to get me to 30-35% abv. I usually put all the mason jars into 1 and it goes in the freezer - this time with very little air space. Then I let it freeze and cold crash it 1-2X.

The gelatin is on the 3rd pass this time and it seems to have made a "jello shot" at the bottom almost as I added it in. Hopefully it has some sediment, but I am not doing jello again. The freeze and melt cold crash and decant works way way better IMHO.

I may be getting some vinegar taste, but I also would tie it to the beer I used to do it to. Funky Buddha already tastes like it was vinegar and lemon and celery and citrus etc etc, just got concentrated to being near undrinkable. Wet card board I have never had happen, neither has anything else like that. People taste the extra hoppy bitterness and the more "beery" taste.

Thanks.
Srinath.

 

[Vale71]

With all that oxygenation you're probably getting an acetobacter infection started too, as testified by the vinegary taste.
By the way, your "calculated" alcohol values are probably way off the mark too, if you freeze the beer so fast and then simply thaw it out you'll definitely have some alcohol leftover in the slush that you throw away at the end.

 

[Jokester]

OK gelatin fining seems to have cleared the character of a beer that already had very very little sediment. So I am not touching gelatin with a 100ft stick.

With all that oxygenation you're probably getting an acetobacter infection started too, as testified by the vinegary taste.
By the way, your "calculated" alcohol values are probably way off the mark too, if you freeze the beer so fast and then simply thaw it out you'll definitely have some alcohol leftover in the slush that you throw away at the end.

Now Acetobacter infection ? Not unless those things can infect sub freezing temps and a healthy high 20's or more abv even if your slushy has high abv assumption holds up. The thing never gets warmer than 32F once the can is opened. I make several versions of things fermented with aceto and lacto bacteria. Those can not start an infection much under 50F let alone under 32. The vinegar/sour/sharp tastes are from beers that already tasted sour and sharp and vinegary. Remember what is in the beer ends up in the concentrate, but not in the same ratio. If I threw in say a table spoon of salt - nearly all of that will stay in the ice, very little ending up in the alcohol, of course I cant shoot for 30% abv in that case, because the 70% that's not alcohol will have plenty of salt to sock your taste buds.

I have experimented with the melt off, tasted the left over, melted more tasted it etc etc etc. I arrived at 30-35%, and the squeezing the air out of the bottle and the whole process by trial and error. I am confident that shooting for 35% mathematically leaves me with 30+% - simply because it wont freeze.

Remember freezing fast or slow makes no difference, in fact the flattening of the bottle and putting in a cold beer in it results in a faster freeze. My freezer is -15 or so. If the deepest point in the 35 degree liquid is say 2", the core will freeze in a few hours. I let it stay for 2+ days - I don't want to produce a lot faster than I can drink it. However when it melts, you want the alcohol in the center to melt and run out before the water in the outer wall has melted.
The physics is pretty simple. The wall freezes first, and the wall melts first. The liquid needs to have a flow out path, again wall is the best option here. You want alcohol to melt and flow out at a high enough rate that the water that also ends up in the melt is low enough, and by the time you're at that 35% concentration, you likely have over 30%. It will not freeze in my freezer too.

I will have to send these things off to test, but a test I have made is - I taste the liquid as it runs out after I have hit my mathematic 35% volume. If it has the alcoholic taste, I hold it for another oz or so, taste it again. Repeat.

Agreed finally I will need to test it with a proper lab for sure. I am not sure I'll be doing this in even a few months, so I'll hold off on it for now. It seems to be $60-200 because I also want to get carb numbers from the lab test.

Cool.
Srinath.