Fermenting at 75+ degrees?

[lroog]

I live in FL and it simply cannot get cool enough in the summer to ferment my beers below 75 degrees. My beer tastes good, but I can't help to wonder if they would taste better if they fermented at a cooler temperature. What are some of your experiences with fermentation temperature?

 

[BrewNow]

Brewed a Saison this summer using 3711 and kept the primary in the garage. It held ~ 85F for a week. The batch came out perfect. If I were in your shoes, I would take advantage of the warmer temps and use yeasts that enjoy the heat (I’m a HUGE fan of Saison!) As for American yeasts, in my experience they may generate off flavors at 75. They just don't come out as clean tasting as I like. Although for my APA/IPA styles, I like a super dry and clean base to let the hops POP. I assume you have a cement slab foundation and no basement? So moving the primary below ground may not be an option? I recall reading some home brewers use insulated containers with ice surrounding the fermentation vessel during primary. . .

 

[pwndabear]

swamp. cooler.

 

[Daybis]

I've had two batches of pale ale that seemed to have been affected by fermentation temperatures above 75 degrees (usually keep the house at 75 degrees during most of the day. I didn't think about the fermentation temps). The beers to this day still have slightly green flavor. It isn't completely offensive, but it's a "green" flavor. Both batches were done separately, same recipe (different hop schedule), but were brewed 24 hours apart, and temperature is the only thing I can think of that they might have in common.

 

[lroog]

I've had two batches of pale ale that seemed to have been affected by fermentation temperatures above 75 degrees (usually keep the house at 75 degrees during most of the day. I didn't think about the fermentation temps). The beers to this day still have slightly green flavor. It isn't completely offensive, but it's a "green" flavor. Both batches were done separately, same recipe (different hop schedule), but were brewed 24 hours apart, and temperature is the only thing I can think of that they might have in common.

This describes my situation precisely.

Brewnow> that is what I did. Should be ready to drink in two weeks and it smelled amazing when I bottled it. I want to brew a Octoberfest style with ale yeast but I feel like the temp should be lower on that.

 

[JetSmooth]

I'm doing a Belgian Strong and have even placed a space heater in front of the fermenters to push the heat up to 80+F. You just have to have the right beers in there to take advantage of the temps.

Heck, I was thinking of trying to lager outside this winter.

 

[samc]

Depending on yeast, I do not really like beers fermented at high temps. I did an ESB with S-04 @ 75-76 before I had a way to control temps and although everyone else liked the beer I couldn't get past the added tastes that I did not want in the beer.

It does not cost much to make a ferm chamber out of some rigid insulation.

 

[Mateo]

Although this may be more than you want to deal with, you might want to look into fermenting under pressure.

The benefits of fermenting under pressure will reduce ester production and allow fermentation at higher temperatures resulting in quicker fermentation and quicker maturation.

Here is a great article from Kai:

http://www.braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=Fermenting_Lagers

And some picks of whats needed:

http://bubrew.org/pressure-ferment.pdf

The second article has prices from ages ago. Today you can double the cost of most of the parts mentioned.

Pro:

Cleaner beer
Faster Fermentation
Higher Fermentation Temps
Carbonated Beer When Finished
Less CO2 Purchased

Cons:

Cost of start up (offset by time and CO2 purchase costs)

Since I primarily brew lagers I do my primary fermentation at 48F until 50% attenuation is reached and then I raise the temp to ambient temperatures for a D-Rest while building pressure.

In the case of an Ale you could simply ferment the entire batch under pressure from the get go, or pitch and control your temps for 48 hours and then go under pressure at which point you no longer have to be concerned about the higher temps.

 

[cclloyd]

I brewed for 3+ years fermenting at room temp and made some very palatable beers but since buying a chest freezer and temp controller they have gone from OK to fantastic. Aside from the obvious (SANITATION), IMO temp control makes more difference in the quality of a beer than anything else you can do for it.

 

[Hang Glider]

I live in FL and it simply cannot get cool enough in the summer to ferment my beers below 75 degrees. My beer tastes good, but I can't help to wonder if they would taste better if they fermented at a cooler temperature. What are some of your experiences with fermentation temperature?

I understand about the heat. Really, I do.

And YES, it will be better if you can ferment in the low to mid 60s. Immensely better! Best thing I ever did in my brewing life was to pay attention to temperatures!

There are many ways, even in Florida - Get an ice chest big enough to hold your carboy/bucket. Place the bucket in the chest. Fill with cool water (my tap water is 85 - I have to dump ice in, too!) - regulate to about 62-65F.
Put in the house during the summer, not the garage.

Freeze some plastic coke/water bottles, capped. Freeze several! - before you go to work, throw a couple in the ice chest. When you get home, swap them out for more frozen ones - keep this cycle for the first week of fermentation, at least.

Of course, automation is easier - a small fridge, with a temperature control unit -

 

[Fishin-Jay]

If you're like me, this brewing hobby needs to allow me to make better beer than I can buy, or at least make beer as good as what I can buy. After brewing less than a year I'm not there yet. My friends and my wife like my beer, but I've only been pleased with two batches.

I too, do not have temp control (and up until recently I lived in SoCal). The only beer I made that I liked: Belgian Strong Ale. All I can figure is it's because the yeasts for that style like the warmer temps.

My other ales have been palatable, but very disappointing to me. So, to fix this situation I'm saving up to buy a 5 cu ft chest freezer and a johnson controller. I've rulled out most other significant causes for off flavors as I have progressed during the past 10 months. The only factor I'm not reasonably controlling is temp, so I am hoping that this next investment fixes the issue for me.

But, if you're not like me, and you're happy to be making decent beer. Then RDWHAHB and just accept that you can't control your temps the way you're "supposed to."

 

[jturie]

I have an IPA on gas that will see its first tasting tomorrow--during the second day of fermentation in my usually cool (68-69) crawl space, we hit in the mid 90s here in Philly, and the temp strip read 74--therefore the ferm temps were at least 77. I'll find out how this thing tastes.

Been scouring craigslist for a used fridge for a few weeks....everyone says temp control is where it's at.

 

[niquejim]

I understand about the heat. Really, I do.

And YES, it will be better if you can ferment in the low to mid 60s. Immensely better! Best thing I ever did in my brewing life was to pay attention to temperatures!

There are many ways, even in Florida - Get an ice chest big enough to hold your carboy/bucket. Place the bucket in the water. Fill with cool water (my tap water is 85 - I have to dump ice in, too!) - regulate to about 62-65F.
Put in the house during the summer, not the garage.

Freeze some plastic coke/water bottles, capped. Freeze several! - before you go to work, throw a couple in the ice chest. When you get home, swap them out for more frozen ones - keep this cycle for the first week of fermentation, at least.

I do exactly this, way down in South Florida, in my somewhat AC'd garage. I have been able to keep it at 58-60 with ice bottles and a fan

 

[Daybis]

This describes my situation precisely.

Brewnow> that is what I did. Should be ready to drink in two weeks and it smelled amazing when I bottled it. I want to brew a Octoberfest style with ale yeast but I feel like the temp should be lower on that.

I brewed the same recipe twice over the spring when it was much cooler and the both batches turned out great. So temperature is the only thing I can think of that would effect the out come of the beer. They tasted green from the time I put them in the secondary, same at bottling, and the same now. Now, the "greenness" is mellowing out, but it is still there.

 

[BlackBearForge]

I live in Florida as well and only just started brewing (put the first batch in the fermenter two weeks ago) and it seemed to me that the best thing I could do right off the bat was to control the temperature of the active phase of fermentation so I went the Igloo Cube cooler route with a custom built foam insulation lid. With five gallons or so of water surrounding it I brought the temp down to 68 degrees the first night using three 16 oz. Coke bottles full of ice. After that for the first week of fermentation I had to rotate two bottles out each morning and night to hold the steady 68 degrees. After the first phase of fermentation was over however I've only had to put one bottle a day in to keep it at that temperature.

Check out these online instructions I found very helpful:

http://www.bayareamashers.org/gadgets/Dave's Cheap n Easy fermentation chiller.pdf

http://www.yeastfarts.com/brewing/equipment/65-fermentation-cooler

The second set is what I followed for the most part as it uses the wheeled version of the Cube (about $27.00 at Sam's Club). The regular Cube runs about that same price but I couldn't find it anywhere until after I bought the wheeled version, and I found it at Lowes. The board of foam insulation ran about $15.00 if I remember. I managed to make a three piece lid that allows me to leave the original lid of the cooler attached and held up by tying it to the telescoping handle.

 

[Mermaid]

I highly recommend a swamp cooler, even a ghetto one where you get one of those $5.00 plastic storage tubs they sell at places like WalMart (vs. using a big ice chest).

There are a handful of yeasts that you can use to brew Belgian styles, but only the saison varieties are really forgiving of temps above 80 (for more than say, bottle conditioning). I rigged up a swamp cooler (carboy in cold water, covered in black tshirt, point fan on tshirt) for a dubbel I brewed the first week of August when the temps outside were in the mid-upper 90s and the temps inside were around 80. Kept the fermentation temps between 68-74 to keep the phenolics from going too crazy - and it worked out really well.

Whether you go "cheap and easy" on the swamp cooler, or invest in a fridge, build a fermentation chamber, etc. unless you want to brew a saison, you'll want to come up with some way to keep the temps closer to what your yeast wants.

 

[BigJerk]

Heat's normally not a problem here, but my wife is a genius, and last time my brew was at 75 she told me to put a wet t-shirt on the carboy and stick the tail in water. lowered my ferm temp to 72, not to bad for a cheap fix.

 

[octo]

i live in central Fl, target has the big round storage tubs on clearance now for 5$. get one of those tubs, put your carboy in it, fill the tub with some water, moisten a tshirt and put it over the carboy, add ice to the water and some frozen 2 liter bottles as stated earlier. the cold water should absorb up through the t shirt. Ive been able to keep my temps in the mid to low 60s this way.

 

[pjcampbell]

going back to the post about fermenting under pressure as an alternative--Does temperature not matter to any extent if you are fermenting under pressure? What's the max. temp you'd want on a clean ale you would normally ferment at 65F (not pressurized).?

 

[wedge421]

Hop on Craigs List and pick yourself up a freezer and add some temp control. Easy and can be done for around $150

 

[Xaphoeous]

My stout read 82F on the temp strip on my glass carboy about 24 hours into fermentation. I'm kinda curious what this is going to taste like. I'm really not sure how the heck it got that warm, as the carboy is in my basement where the ambient air temp is about 66F.

Maybe the basement gremlins put a heat blanket on my beer while I was away!

 

[Piratwolf]

Haunt Craig'slist for a free or cheap (mine cost $25) mini-fridge, spend an hour max modifying the inside to fit your fermenter, spend no more than $55 on temp controller (directions in DIY for cheaper builds) and all your temp control probs are pretty much over. You'll kick yourself for not doing it sooner. I did.

 

[coastwx]

ice water bath is the way to go and it will transform your beer. Mine took a step towards great beer once I started doing this.

 

[Mateo]

In regards to pressure fermentation I did some experiments that were not conclusive as I do not have enough data to really make any accurate conclusions. However, here are my observations.

I brewed a Czech Lager at 45F for the first few days to allow for gas production after which I set it at about 5psi and gradually raise the temp up to 75F. I let it finish out at 75F and finished the fermentation at 15psi. It was fully carbed up once finished and I cold conditioned it for 4 or 5 weeks prior to drinking.

It tasted great and was actually surprised me as I had to tap it when a keg ran out at a party.

I cannot comment on ales as I do not normally brew ales. I would expect you could reach 80F under pressure without any ill effects normally associated with high fermentation temperatures. If you were going to kick off a fermentation under pressure you would need to pressurize the keg from the start to avoid any early effects of the high temperature.

The pressure can only do so much against temp. There is a point at which it might not help much, but what that is I do not know.

Two things to think about:

1. Pressure must be gradually increased as the fermentation progresses.
2. Cropping yeast under pressure and returning them to atmospheric pressure will damage them.

Hope this helps

 

[Xaphoeous]

Do those blowoff hoses just go into your ice-bath water???

 

[Hang Glider]

My stout read 82F on the temp strip on my glass carboy about 24 hours into fermentation. I'm kinda curious what this is going to taste like. I'm really not sure how the heck it got that warm, as the carboy is in my basement where the ambient air temp is about 66F.

Maybe the basement gremlins put a heat blanket on my beer while I was away!

ahh - another brewer PROVES with evidence, that active fermentation can raise the wort as much as 10 degrees, or MORE!...unless you believe in basement gremlins. Many brewers often say active fermenation will raise temps "a few degrees" but it may well be much more significant than that. My own experience often points to about 10F.

gotta practice temp control!


Xaphoeous, sure, the blow off hoses can go into the water bath - as long as they're actively blowing OUT - but I'd rather use a growler with water and a dose of star san...

 

[daksin]

Temp control is as simple as the water baths posted above- just do it!

Also, if your humidity is low (not sure where you are in FL) you can go EVEN SIMPLER than that, and just wrap your beer in a wet towel. Evaporation takes care of all the cooling as long as you keep it wet. If you need to get it all the way down to 60F for using notty or something, just point a fan at it.

That said, saisons and certain belgians love the heat. You could start with those- maybe that will give you the kick in the pants to get some temperature control going.

 

[downtown3641]

+1 for the swamp cooler. I use one of those large buckets that others have mentioned. I actually use it for my sanitizer solution on brew day then just put the carboy in it with a couple of ice packs and drop the blowoff tube in the solution. I also cover the carboy with a tshirt and rubber band it to the neck of the carboy to prevent some light from getting in.

 

[elvestinkle]

Indeed, swamp cooling is amazing if you don't have cash for a fridge like my broke grad student self. I use a KITTY LITTER pan full of ice water and a t-shirt with a fan. During active fermentation I run it full-tilt, re-wetting the t-shirt as necessary, and check temps every few hours; I can get it down to 64 and hold it there pretty well.

NB: the set-up seems to work best in an enclosed area like a closet. Larger volume of air around it seems to cut down on evaporative cooling effect in my experience.